Wayne Brady vs Bill Maher: How a Good Brotha Fights A Bad White Man

He does it by talking about the black women (of questionable repute) that the “bad white man” dates.

Say What?

Apparently, Wayne Brady (WB) got plenty tired of Bill Maher (BM) using his name to lament President Obama not being hardcore or thuggish enough to suit him. Perhaps both should search YouTube for that video remake of a Waka Flocka rap where President Obama is as thug-like as they want him to be. It is so funny. Not.

In an interview with the tall, black and beautiful Aisha Taylor (whose husband is white), Wayne Brady utters some of the following (excerpted from Mediaite):

“I’ve had Bill Maher twice now when referencing Obama, [sic] he’s like ‘yeah, with your Wayne Brady’ — it’s a diss to Obama to be called me,” Brady explained to Tyler on her podcast this week, noting that Maher wanted a “brother brother.” Accusing Maher of only having the “particular black experience” of “fuck[ing] black hookers,” he explained that he did not confront Maher usually because “if I would have gone on his show or even doing it online, I’m not going to win, he still has his platform.”

But Brady explained that Maher was wrong to think of Brady as somehow not “black enough.” “I’m not saying I’m really badass but, if Bill Maher has his perception of what’s black wrapped up, I would gladly slap the shit out of Bill Maher in the middle of the street, and then I want to see what Bill Maher would do.” He explained that he wouldn’t actually do this “because I’d get sued and lose my house and its not worth it for me, but the black man part of me would be so satisfied to slap the shit out of him in front of Coco and Ebony and Fox, the three ladies of the night that he has hired.”

It Is Such An Epic Smackdown

Lemme tell you something, Wayne Brady is essentially a “good brotha”. See how bad-ass this man is? He uses a lot of profanity. He talks about Bill Maher’s sex life. He’s showing us he can be street. Keepin’ it real. What a profile in courage. Courage! I tell you.

  • WB does not ask BM to invite him onto his show for a man-to-man showdown. Nope. Instead, he makes these comments on a podcast with a relatively well-known black woman (who’s married to a white man) to talk smack about BM’s sex life with “black hookers”.
    • This tactic looks familiar, a “good black man” (married to a non-black woman) runs to a black woman to talk about a white man’s sex life. There’s just too much mess here to unpack.
  • WB does not ask BM to invite him onto his show for a man-to-man showdown. WB admits he would not win, since BM would get the last word. Apparently, BM is so very all-powerful. Does WB think we’re supposed to believe it is simply by virtue of getting the last word? In this age of social media?
    • One of the most “powerful / popular” people on Facebook is George Takei (a.k.a Mr. Sulu). Nearly everybody can get a last word in.
  • WB falls into role playing a wanna-be-thug anyway, just to convince others that he is not an emasculated, weak, well-behaved, white accommodating negro. Then he proceeds to talk about himself – nearly in 3rd person for additional distancing – just to express his desire to smack BM. Is he afraid of going to jail if he made the threat directly?
    • I get that he’s joking. But it was funny when he did it on Chappelle’s Show.
  • Why does WB make black women (they are still human beings – I know a lot of people forget this) part of the focal point in his courageous blasting of BM? Since when is smacking a white man in front of black women (for whom WB obviously has no respect for) something to be in awe of? They are already denigrated for being black women.
    • Why bring them into his diss of BM? Because at the end of the day, he is the emasculated, weak, well-behaved, white accommodating negro he’s referenced as.

They Can Never Put Their Egos Aside

I know some of us love misdirection, and will think this topic is about Bill Maher or the “type” of women he likes to be seen in public with. I’m looking at the composition of what one man said about another. I expected a direct man-to-man retort, but that – in my eyes – never occurred.

Somehow a “good brotha” decided that the best way to insult a “bad white man” inevitably involved black women and sex. (And this topic is an old one.)

Don’t be fooled by the “black hooker”, “black prostitute” or “black women are easy” talk. You and I know some negroes never make a distinction when it comes to black women (as prostitutes), white men (as exploiters) and sex (always purchased, never about love).  Their goal is to continually promote this negative, tainted image.

“Good black men” or “good brothas” like to pretend that their sex / relationships with non-black women is about uplifting liberation, real love and reclaiming “black male pride” as reigning penis-champions, whereas black women are eternally debased sex slaves to all non-black men. And any man who tangles with us, no matter how low he is, will sink even further down.

You cannot ever win – the freedom to date whomever you like – if you ever give an inch to this type of argument and logic. Especially when used to serve the extremely fragile ego of a black male defending himself from a white man.

A Simple Rule of Thumb: Keep Black Women Out of It

If a “good brotha” is having a fight with a “bad white man” – let us all step far back and way way out of reach. ‘Cause when the fists start swinging – the “good black man”  is gonna end up punching black women in the face whilst pretending he couldn’t touch the “bad white man”. Somehow it’ll be because he keeps missing his target.

Yet, the truth is: he was always aiming for the black woman….

***

Yahoo artice: WB vs BM

Mediaite article: WB vs BM

Share

53 Replies to “Wayne Brady vs Bill Maher: How a Good Brotha Fights A Bad White Man”

  1. @ Jalilimaster Part 2

    I don’t care who your post was directed to – it was some of the things you said that can be damaging to BWs spirits.

    I can’t speak for African women as I am not one and it would be disrespectful to do so, but in my estimation yes, that could be considered a dig against an African woman who doesn’t fit a certain beauty convention.

    You wrote: “You are kind of twisting my words here I’m afraid. I never said anything about a beauty convention/standard. Those are all your own words. I don’t even subscribe to the whole idea of some ‘European beauty standard’. “

    My response: I am not twisting your words. Those are my words. You never used those terms specifically, but you did illustrate the concepts.

    I did not mention European beauty standard. But it my turn to find something telling. I find it telling that you mentioned Beyonce, a woman who closely fits the European beauty standard, as one for whom it is acceptable to use her beauty to marry well. Knowing full well that most AA women and other BW don’t look like that. Knowing that this is of which we battle against in the West as BW – mostly from BM.

    Regarding your comment on India Arie vs Whoopie Goldberg it is moot. It reminds me of the DBR-BM who chase the whitest thing in the room and yet twist their mouths to speak empty platitudes of “Black Queen/Black Love” to average West African looking BW. I find it telling (there’s that phrase again) that you chose to laud the most disparaged one of the two as “proof” you are not slighting West African featured BW. It feels kind of like see – I even like Whoopie.

    You wrote: I’m not too sure what you mean here, re: inclusive.

    My response: Just what I said. All of the women you named Gabby Union, Kerry, Naomi, Zoe all fit a certain phenotype. It is not as exclusive as the European beauty standard because most BW will never fit that, but they still represent a convention/standard, nonetheless.

    And so I am telling my black sisters to determine for themselves what is possible for them- regardless of anyone’s opinions about the matter.

    I wrote: “Certain phenotypes have been so maligned in the West that a BW may shortchange herself in dating and selecting a mate for marriage. This is how we get the caricatures, put downs, and stereotypes in public discourse (began by whites) and yet many BW say that the only people who have complimented them on their natural hair, skin, lips and other features have been – white.”

    Your response: “This has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I wrote.”

    My response: This has everything to do with what you wrote. Especially since you are trying to advise BW based on what they look like – what is possible re: marriages and relationships. And since most BW have those racially inherited West African traits (that they are beaten over the head for) – that has bearing on the context of your “advice”.

    You wrote: In my comments, I made a distinction between a man being average in looks, and a man being of average income. ….

    My response: That all makes a lot of sense. However, in this context it appears to be a lot of backpedaling.

  2. @ Jalilimaster Part 3

    You wrote: “I am not going to play dumb here. Men who are well-to-do often have a wider choice when it comes to partners. When I say well-to-do, I mean rich i.e. millionaires and above. Let’s not pretend about it. Now, a rich AND handsome man would have even more options than a rich, average looking man, who would have more options than an average looking man with an average income. That’s just life. Similarly, a beautiful woman would get approached/asked out by well-to-do men more often than an average woman would. Once again, that is just life. The fact that you might not like the truth does not make it any less so.”

    I wrote: No one is playing dumb nor encouraging you to do so. I still say that BW who don’t look like Beyonce, Gabby, or Zoe should not eliminate themselves from being included in those men’s choices.

    You wrote: Seriously, you don’t get to dump your issues on me. All these assumptions you made came from your own head. Don’t pretend that it was me who said this stuff.

    My response: Don’t tell me what my issues are. I read and took everything that you said at face value. Seriously, you don’t get to dump any kind of stuff (albeit subtly) all over some of the more vulnerable readers of this blog.

    I wrote: “Lastly, I am not exactly clear on what is meant by if you are average looking you will be treated like most average looking women. I feel that a woman regardless of looks and even age are generally treated with respect and courtesy by most normal, healthy men in simple interactions.”

    Your response: I think your misunderstanding of my comment comes from us having a very different benchmark. When I refer to ‘average men’, I mean men who would be considered a good enough catch by most ‘average’ women. Any man below the educated and/or at least well employed isn’t someone I would even waste my time talking about on this site. Similarly, when I said average women would get treated like most other average women, I meant that average bw would get treated like most average other-race women (i.e in terms of likelihood of being approached). I wasn’t talking about men treating them poorly. A man treating a woman well has nothing to do with her looks. It is about how she carries and presents herself and his character/morals.

    My response: This sounds great. BWE is all about telling BW to raise their standards – so I don’t know why below par men are pulled into the convo. But again in the context of your first comment to AA women it sounds like backpedaling. You original comment suggests that average women are treated differently than beautiful women. It sure seemed like you were referencing poorer treatment. I am sure that no one who read that would glean that “average” women would be treated “better-differently” than beautiful women.

    You wrote: My point was that folks shouldn’t see Naomi dating a handsome billionaire (I wouldn’t go into their relationship here), and say, ah, there is a BW with that very handsome, very wealthy wm, and decide to trudge over to Europe to get one for themselves, all the while ignoring who the BW is. Most men like that tend to go for the same type of woman. If he was dating a ww, she would be another beautiful woman, not just anybody. Men of that calibre have that luxury, especially if they also get to be handsome as well. That’s just life.”

    My response: How kind of you to warn BW to stay in their lanes. LOL And you were so practical about it by saying – “thats just life”. How nice of you to be so concerned that BW are going to land in Europe en masse hunting for handsome billionaires. It’s funny how you say you don’t subscribe to any beauty ideal and yet you throw around celebrity names that fit very specific ideals and use them as “warnings” to BW who may not fit those ideals.

    I say that since the image of the BW had been so shredded by racist whites and now by damaged blacks no one can objectively determine what is possible for AA women. I say that since most BW dont even try they don’t objectively know whats possible for themselves.

    I also say that no one gets to decide what’s considered beautiful, handsome, or rich enough regarding relationships except the relationship’s potential participants. And if BW don’t show up I guess they will never know. So black gals cross Monaco and the Alps off your vacation lists. Too many potential millionaires/billionaires there. Stay in your lane.

    You wrote: All I did was be honest to an African woman (Joan) about the dynamics at play in Europe. but from what a lot of AA women say, even attractive BW struggle to get play in America. Also, I am pretty sure I was one of the first people to take AA women to task a few years ago in the BWE blogosphere, for relinquishing the ‘exotic’ label to foreign BW. If I was playing games, wouldn’t I have left you all to continue in that foolishness?!

    I wrote: You shared your subjective opinion with Joan. And thank you for the positive contributions. A person can have an understanding of an issue and yet still put a drop of poison in the pot. It may not be intentional, but it can still be damaging. One can’t divorce the concept of “the beautiful” for AA women and certain racially inherited physical traits.

  3. I found the troll! JaliliMaster is a gaslighter who is saying that only specific types of black women who are exceptionally attractive will be able to acquire quality men of other races. And the ones who have been able to get quality men are a rare exception.

    So there’s almost no point in bw dating out, because they won’t meet the standards of other men. And all other women are just fine. I’m not buying those wolf tickets. He/She can have several seats.

    GoldenAh: I’ll let your comment through, but please don’t do this again. I don’t mind a very long, very thorough dialogue. Everyone should be able to have an intense discussion without feeling they’ll be called names.

    Jalilimaster has been around for a long while. She and Oshun are having an interesting debate, so I’m satisfied with that.

  4. We can agree to disagree. I don’t mind dialogue either. I was making an observation of someone that is feigning interest in bw searching for quality mates, but was making discouraging comments about bw. If they enjoy having dialogue with someone like this, great. It makes it easier for me to spot people like ‘them.’

  5. “I found the troll! JaliliMaster is a gaslighter who is saying that only specific types of black women who are exceptionally attractive will be able to acquire quality men of other races. And the ones who have been able to get quality men are a rare exception.”

    First of all, to the poster ‘Shera’, in all the years I’ve been on BWE blogs (which is about 6-7 years ago since when Evia first started blogging), I have never come across you. I have zero interest in wasting my time with a jolly-come-lately that could only be bothered to throw around insults. I will however address the first paragraph of your comment. Obviously, my idea of ‘quality men’ and your idea are very different. The only thing I said that has any relation to what you wrote is that successful (financially) handsome men almost always end up with beautiful women. Irrespective of the race of the man OR woman. You are the one that chose to interpret that as: “only specific types of black women who are exceptionally attractive will be able to acquire quality men of other races.” I never said ‘only’. Secondly, a quality man does not have to be good-looking, or rich for that matter. Most men aren’t, quality or not. My definition of a quality man is someone of good character/morals AND he is able to provide for his family. You go and define ‘quality men’ to mean whatever you want it to mean.

    That is all I will be saying to you. Other than that, I’m just going to ignore you.

  6. I thought we were having ‘dialogue.’ I thought everyone here was allowed to voice their different opinions. I stand by my comments. Any woman can get any man they want if they make the right choices in life that put them in the path of quality men.

    Micromanaging black women only and not mentioning other races of women as to the type of men they can or cannot get is mysoginistic and controlling. There are men who don’t like bw. There are many men that do. I’m not focusing on the ones that don’t like me. You only need one person to like you.

  7. To Oshun Pt 1:

    Unlike the poster I referred to in my previous comment, I have known you on these forums for years, and you replied to my ACTUAL comments, so I am more than happy to have this conversation with you.

    Side note: To Joan, I would appreciate it if you could reply to my original comment to you and tell me if you understood, misunderstood or disagreed with the points I made. I’m curious as to whether cultural differences are playing any part in how some readers might interpret my comments. I’d also appreciate it if others (whether AA, Caribbean or African) on this site would reply as well especially if you disagree (for the record, that request isn’t open to the poster ‘Shera’. As I said, anything you post will be ignored by me. You can, however, post with a different username and I will be none the wiser).

    You said: Most African American women despite admixtures who live in the U.S. and one may even say generally the West have West African features! You and I both know that this is true. Again, despite admixtures, BW are not a nation of mulattos/morenas. If most “average BW” all looked light, bright, and almost white (in skin, features and hair) there would be no issues of colorism or featurism for BW to deal with that specifically disparages – West African features. BWE would be out of business on that end………………..This blog and subsequent conversations revolve around issues impacting BW. Not other women. We all know that other folks don’t have West African features. As a matter of fact other folks are doing fine in life and they have communities/forums that celebrate the average-ness of their beauty and specific features – unlike black women.

    My response: I feel that we are arguing completely different things. First of all, I don’t think anyone is disputing that most BW in the West have West African features. I made no comment or reference to celebrating anybody’s beauty or average-ness. All I did was make an observation of how things are or at least, appear to me with regards to the dating habits of people in Europe. I did not make things that way. I was just letting a poster know so that when she arrives in Europe, she would be ready to jump into dating (and hopefully marriage), and not have to begin learning stuff from scratch.

    You said: (My comments)“This issue/problem that you seem to have where any bw that looks like, well, a black woman is unattractive is your issue, not mine. And from your reply,it seems that when I used the word ‘average’, you took that to mean ‘unattractive’. No, it just means average. As I said, your issue, not mine!”
    (Your comments)LOL! Don’t ever tell me what I think, feel, or what my issues are. Since you jumped right in – I feel that this is exactly what you were saying in your post. That a West African featured woman is not a “stunner” and shouldn’t bother. I feel the exact opposite and strongly feel it necessary to counter that. I am not going to allow anyone to further poison the spirits of my sisters and not say anything – even if the poison is couched as well meaning advice.

    My response: Well, no, that is not what i was saying. I never mentioned ‘features’, West African or not, in my original comment. I should mention that I do not consider West African features any less attractive than features from other parts of Africa. I, personally, prefer West African features to those from certain other countries I was going to name, but feel it is best that I don’t because from the way this is going, I don’t want anyone from some other African country who is reading this to feel offended.

    You wrote: Here is your original quote: “That is a mistake, I think, that a lot of AA women are making. They see these white European men who are top-rate catches married to or in serious long-term relationships with BW, and interpret that to mean that European men love BW. They don’t. They just love beautiful women. If you are average looking, like most women are, you are going to get treated like most average looking women, and will be approached by the more average men (average looks, income etc.). It is not rocket science.”
    Your whole quote above was directed towards African American women. It specifically focuses on AA women and “top-rate” catches. It pointedly tells BW that Euro men are not open to BW – unless said BW is considered “beautiful”. It also suggests that average women are treated “differently” which can only mean differently from “beautiful” women.
    Actually, my comment was directed at Joan. I only referenced AA women here because they are the only group of BW that I have heard make those “Euro men are better than American men” comments in public. I never said, not to mention implied that that ‘Euro men are not open to BW – unless said BW is considered “beautiful”’. Most white European men with BW, are dating average looking BW. Most men in Europe are average looking themselves. My comments implied that when one sees any white European man that other ww would rave about (i.e that is BOTH well-to-do and good looking, which is not a very common combination), and he is with a BW, more often than not, the issue does not tend to be that she is black and he likes her because she is black. My point was that it is usually that she is a beautiful woman, NOT that she is a beautiful ‘black’ woman.

    I’ll give you an example: Boris Becker. He has said before that a common misconception about him is that he only likes bw. He said that wasn’t the case. He just so happened to have married a biracial woman, and had a relationship with another bw, and people assumed that was all he liked. He even said that when he is in America, he couldn’t even date a ww because whenever he went out (clubbing, parties) bw would literally surround him. These are his own words. Meanwhile, he did not get that same treatment from bw when he was in any European country. Most bw in Europe are not going to wait and make sure that a wm ‘likes’ bw before she let’s him know that she might be interested. The assumption is always that he does, even if they have never seen him date a bw before.

    You said: Since I don’t think that sane AA women are rejecting “average looking/earning” well- mannered, solid men left and right so much as to cause alarm- the last few words of your original post are a moot point.
    It was everything you said prior to that. At best, one can say you are suggesting “stay reasonable”. At worst your comment reads similar to the DBR-BM warning AA women that “White men don’t want yall. Especially high earning White men who can have White, Asian, Latina and all other women but black – so don’t yall bother to even get in the game”.

    My response: In my very original comment, I said to Joan “if you are quite attractive”……..In other words, that judgment is left up to the individual woman. I’m not even giving the men that priviledge (i.e to decide if the woman ‘qualifies’ as attractive). If a woman with an average looking face and decent enough body believes that she is AND carries herself as a drop-dead gorgeous woman, most people will start to believe that she is.

    You said: “I find it odd that you would stress such points to a group of women who have already been browbeaten and indoctrinated to accept only crumbs.
    And in my response to your quote I wanted to stress to my sisters that “beautiful” can only be determined by the individual man himself. So get in the game and reach for all your hands can hold.Beauty is arbitrary and fluctuates with place and time, and in the case of AA BW – politics.”

    My response: As we are on a BWE forum, I would hope that most of the women reading this have already gotten rid of any anti-bw dogma they may have been fed previously. One has to be able to read the comments and get the nuance. If there is any confusion about what I wrote, I am more than happy to address them. Although, Oshun, it just occurred to me that you may have taken what I wrote as a ‘dig’ at West African-featured women (because I’ll be honest, I’ve gone over my post, even after reading what you wrote, and I’m still struggling to understand why you drew that conclusion)………………possibly because of the women I mentioned. When I said “of the (Gabby, Zoe, Naomi, Kerry) variety”, I actually meant that in terms of hue/complexion, not features. I.e. in contrast to the types BW, particularly AA women one normally sees in the media. European men (well, white men in general), are used to seeing biracial women in the media, so they may not necessarily have as much ‘exotic’ appeal as someone of a darker hue. So when I said someone of that variety, I simply meant that attractive bw of that sort of complexion (whatever their features), had an extra card that other attractive lighter-skinned bw may not necessarily have. I could have named other actresses, but I tried to list the ones that I knew most people on this site would have heard of. Not surprisingly, there are not that many darker skinned BW in the public eye, so I did not exactly have a large pool to pick from!

  8. Oshun Pt 2:

    You said: I don’t care who your post was directed to – it was some of the things you said that can be damaging to BWs spirits.
    I can’t speak for African women as I am not one and it would be disrespectful to do so, but in my estimation yes, that could be considered a dig against an African woman who doesn’t fit a certain beauty convention.”

    My response: I hope I’ve addressed that sufficiently in Pt 1 of my response.

    You wrote: (My comments)“You are kind of twisting my words here I’m afraid. I never said anything about a beauty convention/standard. Those are all your own words. I don’t even subscribe to the whole idea of some ‘European beauty standard’. “
    (Your comments) I am not twisting your words. Those are my words. You never used those terms specifically, but you did illustrate the concepts.

    My response: Once again, I hope my response in Pt 1 addressed this. I think there was some misunderstanding as to the purpose of the bw actresses I used.

    You wrote: I did not mention European beauty standard. But it my turn to find something telling. I find it telling that you mentioned Beyonce, a woman who closely fits the European beauty standard, as one for whom it is acceptable to use her beauty to marry well. Knowing full well that most AA women and other BW don’t look like that. Knowing that this is of which we battle against in the West as BW – mostly from BM.

    My response: I never mentioned Beyonce in that regard. The only times I mentioned her was with regards to Prince William having a crush on her, Naomi and Baby spice (I am struggling to remember Baby Spice’s real name), and when I said that the only time AA women appear in European media, they are of the Beyonce/Halle variety i.e. half-white or look like they are. I never said anything else about beyonce, so I’m baffled as to how you arrived at the conclusion you made. Ah, yes, Emma Bunton!

    You said: Regarding your comment on India Arie vs Whoopie Goldberg it is moot. It reminds me of the DBR-BM who chase the whitest thing in the room and yet twist their mouths to speak empty platitudes of “Black Queen/Black Love” to average West African looking BW. I find it telling (there’s that phrase again) that you chose to laud the most disparaged one of the two as “proof” you are not slighting West African featured BW. It feels kind of like see – I even like Whoopie.

    My response: We all have different tastes, I suppose. Frankly, I think you’re reaching on this one. I understand that if you thought I was some DBR-bm posing as a bw, it is natural that you would take any comment I make from the negative angle. However, you have known me as a contributor to these blogs for a long time and I wish you would have at least given me the benefit of the doubt! I have heard several AA women laud India Arie as some great beauty (and it is almost always followed by some afrocentric platitude), and disparage Whoopi’s looks. I am the the opposite. I never said that India IS average looking and that Whoopi WAS attractive (in her day). I said that I didn’t ‘consider’ India to be some ‘beauty’, simply, according to my tastes. To me, she just looks like any other random bw one might encounter (i.e. nothing special). From what you wrote, I take it that you don’t consider Whoopi ‘attractive’, or consider her an ‘average West African looking bw’. That is fine. I consider her attractive (once again, Whoopi is possibly in her sixties, so I’m talking about a younger Whoopi). Nowadays, she dresses VERY poorly, so there’s not much to say there. We all have different tastes. I always thought that Kelly was the best looking one in Destiny’s Child (as did most people those days). Nowadays, it is Beyonce’s looks that are raved about, even though according to my tastes, Kelly is more beautiful.

    You wrote: (My comment) I’m not too sure what you mean here, re: inclusive. (Your comment) Just what I said. All of the women you named Gabby Union, Kerry, Naomi, Zoe all fit a certain phenotype. It is not as exclusive as the European beauty standard because most BW will never fit that, but they still represent a convention/standard, nonetheless. And so I am telling my black sisters to determine for themselves what is possible for them- regardless of anyone’s opinions about the matter.

    My response: As I said earlier, I hope I answered you suitably in Pt 1. I named them in reference to their skin tone, not anything else. I just don’t know that many darker-skinned BW that everyone would be familiar with. I would have named Oluchi Onweagba, Agbani Darego, Genevieve Nnaji, Lira, etc, but I’m not sure how many people here would know who they are.

    You wrote: (your comment)I wrote: “Certain phenotypes have been so maligned in the West that a BW may shortchange herself in dating and selecting a mate for marriage. This is how we get the caricatures, put downs, and stereotypes in public discourse (began by whites) and yet many BW say that the only people who have complimented them on their natural hair, skin, lips and other features have been – white.”
    (my comment)Your response: “This has nothing whatsoever to do with anything I wrote.”
    (Your comment)My response: This has everything to do with what you wrote. Especially since you are trying to advise BW based on what they look like – what is possible re: marriages and relationships. And since most BW have those racially inherited West African traits (that they are beaten over the head for) – that has bearing on the context of your “advice”.

    My response: (All this you wrote, I wrote, it’s getting confusing, lol.) Let me reiterate; when I said to Joan “if you are attractive”, I was leaving that judgment up to her. I would hope most women on this board (who, I’m assuming, frequent BWE forums), would think of themselves in a positive light. We are all adults here, I’m not too willing to have to continually tell women that they are cute enough. If BWE hasn’t given readers enough confidence in themselves, I doubt my writing anything will. If any of you readers isn’t an adult, well, my comments weren’t for you, as I certainly wasn’t telling any teens to travel to Europe to meet men, lol.

    You wrote: (My comments) In my comments, I made a distinction between a man being average in looks, and a man being of average income. ….
    (Your comments)My response: That all makes a lot of sense. However, in this context it appears to be a lot of backpedaling.

    My response: I wasn’t backpedalling, seeing as I was highlighting the point I actually made in an earlier comment.

  9. Oshun Pt 3:

    You wrotw:@ Jalilimaster Part 3
    (My comment) “I am not going to play dumb here. Men who are well-to-do often have a wider choice when it comes to partners. When I say well-to-do, I mean rich i.e. millionaires and above. Let’s not pretend about it. Now, a rich AND handsome man would have even more options than a rich, average looking man, who would have more options than an average looking man with an average income. That’s just life. Similarly, a beautiful woman would get approached/asked out by well-to-do men more often than an average woman would. Once again, that is just life. The fact that you might not like the truth does not make it any less so.”
    (Your comment): No one is playing dumb nor encouraging you to do so. I still say that BW who don’t look like Beyonce, Gabby, or Zoe should not eliminate themselves from being included in those men’s choices.

    My response: I don’t disagree with you here at all. I think you misunderstood what I meant when I said ‘average looking’ women. I think in one of my earlier comments, I said that most women fall some on the average scale i.e. plain jane, to she’s pretty if she makes an effort, to the more naturally pretty. The only groups I placed outside of the ‘average’ label were those who are unattractive, and those women who were drop-dead gorgeous (few people fall into either category). In other words, I was including those most would consider below-average and above-average in the average category. Most women that are considered ‘below-average’ in looks, for the most part, are women who just couldn’t be bothered to make an effort.

    If you guys don’t mind, I will use real examples of famous people so that I can better explain what I am talking about. A man that I would consider in the drop-dead category is a Brad Pitt. I personally, don’t think he was/is all that outside of his 30’s (i.e. before 30 and after 40), however, in his day, he was a looker. As he is successful, I would consider him a top-rate catch in that respect(please don’t mix this up with ‘quality men’. I have no idea about his character). However, I wouldn’t know if he is an all-round catch unless I knew how he is as a person. Somone like George Clooney/Matt Damon/Will Smith/Fassbender, I consider them in the ‘average’ category in terms of looks. I.e. they are good-looking enough men when they make an effort. They are all successful as well, so I’d consider them top-rate catches in that respect. Take a look at the women these men dated/married. They weren’t ‘beauties’. They were women who looked attractive ‘when they made an effort’. That even applies in Brad Pitt’s case. If you disagree, well (Gwyneth Paltrow, Jennifer Aniston, Sandra Bullock, Minnie Driver, Thandie Newton, Sinnitta (who, I should add, was Simon Cowell’s fiancé and love of his life), Jada Pinkett, etc). Look these women up. They are by no means ‘beauties’. They all just fall somewhere on the average scale, some prettier than others. However, the way they present themselves accentuates their appearance.

    So when I wrote that ‘average’ bw will end up with ‘average’ wm, the scale I used for average is different to what some others may use. Granted, this is slanted because I used famous people as examples, but I had to use a common reference that others could relate to. Naturally, in everyday life, ‘average’ isn’t going to be some ‘attractive enough’ millionaire (like the actors I mentioned). I mentioned in my comments that ‘average income’, to me, means the average income of a college educated man of a certain age (whatever age of man it is you are looking to marry). They most likely are not going to be millionaires, but earn a good salary that can provide well for a family. That is what I consider as ‘average income’. I don’t believe that any woman is short-changing herself or ‘settling’ by marrying these men. My background is different to others so I might have a somewhat different benchmark. Someone who didn’t go to college, or at least doesn’t have a well-paying job is something I can’t even relate to, so my norm might not necessarily be someone else’s norm.

    You wrote: (My comments) Seriously, you don’t get to dump your issues on me. All these assumptions you made came from your own head. Don’t pretend that it was me who said this stuff.
    (Your comments) Don’t tell me what my issues are. I read and took everything that you said at face value. Seriously, you don’t get to dump any kind of stuff (albeit subtly) all over some of the more vulnerable readers of this blog.

    Frome your second response, I gleaned that it was due to the actresses that I named, that gave you a certain impression. I have clarified my point in the previous comment (I hope). If there were any bw (or bg) reading this who made this same erroneous assumption and was hurt by it, I apologise. It wasn’t my intention for it to be read that way. As I said previously, I only mentioned those actresses because they are darker skinned, so they would have a certain extra appeal to these men that some other women (who are more of Alicia Keyes complexion) might not necessarily have. I suppose that in a bid to let folks know that skin tone didn’t have to be a hindrance, I might have inadvertently, given some readers the impression that you had to be ‘barbie dipped in chocolate’ because of the examples I used.

    You wrote: This sounds great. BWE is all about telling BW to raise their standards – so I don’t know why below par men are pulled into the convo. But again in the context of your first comment to AA women it sounds like backpedaling. You original comment suggests that average women are treated differently than beautiful women. It sure seemed like you were referencing poorer treatment. I am sure that no one who read that would glean that “average” women would be treated “better-differently” than beautiful women.
    (I replied): My point was that folks shouldn’t see Naomi dating a handsome billionaire (I wouldn’t go into their relationship here), and say, ah, there is a BW with that very handsome, very wealthy wm, and decide to trudge over to Europe to get one for themselves, all the while ignoring who the BW is. Most men like that tend to go for the same type of woman. If he was dating a ww, she would be another beautiful woman, not just anybody. Men of that calibre have that luxury, especially if they also get to be handsome as well. That’s just life.”
    My response: How kind of you to warn BW to stay in their lanes. LOL And you were so practical about it by saying – “thats just life”. How nice of you to be so concerned that BW are going to land in Europe en masse hunting for handsome billionaires. It’s funny how you say you don’t subscribe to any beauty ideal and yet you throw around celebrity names that fit very specific ideals and use them as “warnings” to BW who may not fit those ideals.

    My response: I pretty much still stand by that comment actually. If after my response in regards to the actresses I mentioned you still disagree, let me know, as I’m not sure if I suitably explained my point. When I mentioned Naomi and her bloke, I meant that as celebrities (IIRC, he met her at a Cannes party), they date those sort of people. I don’t think it is wise for bw to used these famous people who live jet-set lives and set that as a base for bw. I have heard the ‘George’ character from ‘Seinfeld’ being disparaged as a wm that AA women wouldn’t date. If he is successful, then to me, he is good enough of a catch. Instead, many bw (from what I’ve seen written on blogs, not even just the BWE ones), would see a Vladimir Doronin (who I think is handsome), and think to themselves: “hmm, a bw could get that guy, maybe he has a ‘thing’ for bw, I’m a bw, so I should be able to get him”. Then several wm who have really good jobs, but are average looking would approach these women and get turned down, because she’s holding out for someone that looks like Gerard Butler. The problem is that most of the ir couples we see in the media are going to be good-looking people for that very reason. So a lot of bw have created this image in their head of how some wm is going to look (for the record, I think some wm do the same). They see all these wm dating Naomi, Rihanna, Kerry, Halle, Garcelle (or any other bw that has dated a wm), and they get this idea in their head that they will go out and pull some ‘hot black chick’. Meanwhile, they didn’t see that the wm who got these women were hot AND wealthy men. I think this is one point where you (Oshun) and I will have to disagree. Folks should be reasonable about (1) what is actually out there(the vast majority of people are average), (2) whether they need to re-evaluate the criteria on which they base a man’s worthiness (i.e. he doesn’t have to look like a model), and (3) be honest about whether or not even if they met that man of their dreams they have created in their heads, would he also want them.

    You wrote: I say that since the image of the BW had been so shredded by racist whites and now by damaged blacks no one can objectively determine what is possible for AA women. I say that since most BW dont even try they don’t objectively know whats possible for themselves.
    I also say that no one gets to decide what’s considered beautiful, handsome, or rich enough regarding relationships except the relationship’s potential participants. And if BW don’t show up I guess they will never know. So black gals cross Monaco and the Alps off your vacation lists. Too many potential millionaires/billionaires there. Stay in your lane.
    (My comment): All I did was be honest to an African woman (Joan) about the dynamics at play in Europe. but from what a lot of AA women say, even attractive BW struggle to get play in America. Also, I am pretty sure I was one of the first people to take AA women to task a few years ago in the BWE blogosphere, for relinquishing the ‘exotic’ label to foreign BW. If I was playing games, wouldn’t I have left you all to continue in that foolishness?!
    (Your comment): You shared your subjective opinion with Joan. And thank you for the positive contributions. A person can have an understanding of an issue and yet still put a drop of poison in the pot. It may not be intentional, but it can still be damaging. One can’t divorce the concept of “the beautiful” for AA women and certain racially inherited physical traits.

    My response: I would hope that after my extensive responses, you would have a clearer view of my comments. Also, I hope you can see that even if some readers might have misinterpreted the point I was trying to make (as you called it unintentional poison), that was not my intention at all!

  10. I totally agree that the fimniest movement has had an adverse impact on defined gender roles. There is nothing wrong with being independant, but I don’t know any women who wants to go dutch to prove that she is. When it comes to paying for dinner on a date…the man pays. Asking a woman to ‘go dutch’ is just poor taste.When it comes to other forms of chivalry: Men are such simple creatures…and, Christelyn is right, we have simply confused them. Tell a man what you want and, if he’s truly interested, he will give it to you. I know a few women that hate it when a man opens the door for them (prob b/c they are simply not used to it OR have a fierce independance bug they working through).What if the man you are on a date with is a great guy, but dated one of those women right BEFORE he dated you. The poor guys is just confused….does she want me to open the door? will I offend her if I do?, etc. Men hate trying to figure things (or US) out…they do it b/c the love us, but it’s really not thier forte and they, almost always, get it wrong. There are some great guys out there who have been confused by dating all of the wrong women. Body language can be VERY helpful. When the two of you are approaching a door….stop, then look at him. He will understand that you are waiting for him to open the door for you. If he doesn’t…then you have a problem. Sometimes love doesn’t come perfectly wrapped in a bow.

    GoldenAh: Feminism has its place. Definitely there are a ton of laws that benefited women: getting a decent paying job, managing your own money, property and inheritance rights, and domestic violence laws. There were a lot of things that prevented women from being independent.

    Having said that, I can understand why on the social level we’d still like to see men show that they can provide and protect their women. I agree that the biggest problem is what roles does each one play today? Women will have to say what kind of man they are looking for upfront, ’cause men cannot read minds. And I feel men should say what kind of women they are looking for, ’cause they can be just as confusing about what want as well.

    Thanks for the input, Alexander. 🙂

Comments are closed.