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Are Black Children Too Stupid to Learn? Part II: Black and Asian People

Posted on | January 22, 2013 | 33 Comments

I really liked the following comment by bretagne, so I decided to make it a separate post. This was in response to, “Are Black Children Too Stupid To Learn?

So, let it rip bretagne:

We can never have these discussions without re-inscribing tropes about Asian achievement.

As someone who has been teaching in the Korean school system for the past two years, at best, I’m ambivalent about the way in which we valorize (inflate?) Asian academic prowess.

The fact that some Asian students perform well on math and science standardized tests is not insignificant and should not be dismissed. But really, it only tells a part of the story.

The Korean education system (I have the greatest familiarity with Korea) is, in large part,a vestige of the Japanese colonial presence in Korea. There is a a heavy (disproportionate, in my opinion) emphasis on testing, and student grades are based almost entirely on mid-term and final multiple choice exams. So naturally, the entire educational system–from the instructional style of teachers, to the lucrative Korean test-prep cottage industry–is designed around this testing apparatus.

In my opinion, this has made for a very rote, flat, one-dimensional, excruciatingly boring, needlessly joyless and harsh, authoritarian educational experience. And while I agree with the commenter who said that learning is often difficult and time consuming, this is an entirely different animal. I have Korean friends (friends who performed well in the system, did well in university, and are now professionals)who describe their primary educational experiences as TRAUMATIC.

Anyways, the kids here become very good at gaming tests. You would, as well, if you spent 8 hours a day at school studying, and then another 3 or 4 hours after school at the hagwon memorizing and cramming test material. So naturally, when test day rolls around, the kids are well-prepared to regurgitate with aplomb.

But I question how much learning is really taking place in all of this. When I give my high school students an assignment or task that requires them to deploy creativity or think an original thought, they are stumped, paralyzed even. They prefer work that is rote and adheres to a rigid right/wrong binary. And I question if this paradigm is what will best prepare children to innovate and provide leadership for the world of the future.

I’ve also taught in an alternative high school that serviced students who would be labeled “at-risk” stateside. Many of the students were poor, came from dysfunctional homes, and a sizable portion were contending with untreated emotional and learning disabilities. Let me tell you: some of those Korean students could give the students at any urban black high school a run for their money. For me, this simply underscored the fact that underachievement is not cultural or racial, but highly correlated with socioeconomic factors.

This has been a really long winded way of saying that while there’s certainly a crisis with regard to the academic achievement of a sizable demographic of black children, we need to be discerning in terms of what we deem as solutions. And I would proffer that the solution will probably not be found in a wholesale emulation of “Asian” education systems.

There are certainly useful takeaways–namely, the notion of practice and effort making perfect. Asian people (E.Asians–Koreans, Japanese, Chinese) aren’t as invested as we are in the notion that one is a “math person” or a “science person” or whatever. In other words, they do not believe in some sort of inherent ability or inclination towards one subject matter or another. They believe that skills are cultivated, incrementally, over time, with immense practice, and under diligent guidance. In contrast, when American students, even at the elementary level, appear to struggle with a math concept, parents often throw up their hands and say, “Oh, well. Johnny just isn’t a math person.” It has been my experience that E. Asians tend to think that this is ludicrous. You work at things, assiduously, until you improve. Of course you aren’t born a “math person”.

But on the other hand, the Korean system is flat, lacks a certain dynamism, demands absolute obsequiousness from students, and really doesn’t stimulate the majority of students to think in a way that is innovative, critical, risky, or creative. And did I mention that most students find it pretty joyless? I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Silicon Valley is located where it is. The hard science skills have to merge with a measure of creativity. This is what, I believe, should be the target for black children.

I will just say that if I were to raise children here in Korea, I would certainly not put them in the public system. More than likely, I’d enroll them in the nearest international school.

My response:

Tropes? Oh, okay.

Then, henceforth, let the exaggerations commence: Asian countries were at par, and sometimes even worse off, than African countries during the 1950s. (I know a good number did not receive independence until years later.) Look at most of ‘em now. Except for perhaps a few, even the most die-hard Communistic and backward regimes, have realized that too much stealing from productive citizens, and keeping most ignorant, ends up starving the general population….

That progress didn’t happen overnight. Asian leaders thought about what works and put efforts into making it happen. And that took what, maybe a generation or two to get there? That is incredible. It cannot be discounted, dismissed or denied. Of course, it takes enormous energy (effort) to study, build, create and endure than to sit around and do nothing.

We are the ones that are forgetting what works: a rigorous and challenging education. And, of course, learning isn’t easy for everyone. Some people are traumatized leaving their homes, commuting, working, and just talking to other folks, but they have to do it anyway. Maybe some folks can go and live comfortably in their mother’s basement for the rest of their lives. Overall, life remains hard, brutal sometimes, and we’re all bound, at some time or the other, to even get our feelings hurt.

The Black Nation: Is This What Hell Looks Like?

However, let’s get real: If all of Black America were to leave, and form a separate nation, does anyone see it turning into a first world industrialized country? A second tier one? Maybe even third? What businesses could we turn to for jobs? Are there enough skilled people around who are self-sufficient? Who are entrepreneurial? Do we have enough: farmers, engineers, doctors, carpenters, or plumbers? Seriously, it’s not like we can live on barbers, hairstylists and fast food restaurants alone.

Don’t we take the nice and cozy stuff for granted – the infrastructure, electricity, education, police / fire / military protection (which is overwhelmingly provided by white men), in essence a stable society – because all the other groups are doing the work? ‘Cause all we seem to produce are people filling up jails, “entertaining” in the most demeaning ways, increasingly taking up social security disability payments – for “slow children” – along with a miniscule elite replete with great corporate and government perks. I suspect the country would be a basket case before even the week is out.

What Keeping It Real Really Looks Like

Asian empowerment, and I use that term deliberately, is real. And I don’t see a few laudatory comments as inflating their achievement(s). This is an extremely competitive world. A good number of Asians seem to understand the nature of this global “game.” Unfortunately, black people seem to function under the impression that we can infinitely live off of the goodwill of others forever – like well tolerated beggars and perennial wards. (And I ain’t talking about nothing new here, W. E. B. Du Bois and Booker T. Washington dealt with this subject, black progression or regression, if you will, over 100 years ago.)

I don’t believe I’ve ever stated that Asians were perfect and invincible, but goodness, they rank at the top and we (black folks) rank at the bottom in American schools – and likely globally. So, who’s fooling who? And we import their woefully TRAUMATIZED brains to keep most of Silicon Valley, and various industries, afloat these days.

I would LOVE to see the Asian attitude towards education to be emulated and adopted by black people. However, the decision to make schooling more rigorous is up to the parents. And if they are content and satisfied with themselves, and their children, being seen by society (or the world for that matter) as “stupid” – so be it. Everyone else will gladly pass them by.

No One is Better Than Me

And before anyone gets me wrong: I don’t see any group as superior or inferior. I tend to look at things in terms of applied effort. I honestly feel a substantial portion of the population has given up (on life). It saddens me, and I sometimes lament the problem, but overall I don’t see how anyone can change a culture committed to a downward slide into …. what? I dunno.

We’ve had these conversations on these blog(s) before. Black people have a deep and enduring suicidal wish, like death-cult members, wanting too many sane folks to join them. This horror is masked by “black entertainment” mesmerizing people over trivial issues driven by low-rent morons and self-prostituting idiots; the notion of a utopian “black community” which can only exist on the back, sweat and tears of black women; or phrases like “that’s how we do” to make young women conform when she’s simply trying to define her own terms of freedom.

Don’t buy it. Stay alive and thrive.

Okay, I’m done. :D

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Comments

33 Responses to “Are Black Children Too Stupid to Learn? Part II: Black and Asian People”

  1. amy
    January 22nd, 2013 @ 11:58 PM

    Betty strikes again and strikes gold!

    I am fully cosigning everything you said. The fact of the matter is that not too long ago Asians countries like China and Korea were mostly dependent on foreign aid. Today, they can stand toe to toe with anyone, thanks to their own effort.

    I have always viewed this widespread idea that Asians are simply good at memorization and not much else with suspicion. Their rote memorization has surely paid a lot of dividend for people who supposedly lack creativity.

    Two years ago, I was invited to a Business school conference at Columbia University and I was so shocked to see that they were far more Asians that any other race at the school. In fact, I thought I may have stopped at University of Beijing. This is a top rated school and the students there are a good indication of who will be running things in the future.

    Now as for black people….

    I’ll start with black Africa since I am very familiar with the area. There is really no sign that anyone in a seat of power has a clue that the rest of the world has sped away. That is pretty much all there is to say about that.

    What about African Americans?
    It is difficult to find time to open a math textbook when you are busy blaming Da white man for everything wrong in your life, rapping about ‘hoes and bitches’, being a balla or playa. It is all too much to ask for, so a lower expectation is preferred.

    So what can we do about this?
    Individually, those of us in the know have to take care of business in our personal lives. I have already made up my mind, that my children and my young nephews and nieces will be ‘traumatized’ with as much math, physics and chemistry etc as possible. They can complain about their ‘joyless’ childhood when they are living comfortably and running successful businesses thanks to their hard work. That’s all.

    GoldenAh: Hi Amy! Thank you for the comment!

    I don’t understand today’s schooling philosophy. All education used to be by rote, and that was when America was number 1. This flexible, anything goes, self-esteem building stuff is recent. And as we can see – it’s not working out too well. When I went to school we were always having quizzes and tests. Now, it’s considered a harsh thing, like homework. I mean, folks in the educational system have gone off the deep end. Next they’ll say meditating all day and staring into space is what works….

    There’s an NY Times article on this issue. Japan tries to relax their educational standards, and found themselves slipping. What price “creativity” vs “rote” learning?

    I shouldn’t laugh at what you said about African leaders, but I was rolling. Sorry folks. LOL.

    And, yes, Amy, you are correct about individual effort. We realize that education is simply a tool to use throughout our lives. Nothing more, nothing less.

  2. Adrienne Jenkins
    January 23rd, 2013 @ 12:23 AM

    I have to agree with you as well. I was a teacher in Korea for 3 years, and as much as I understand some of the downsides of the education system there that bretagne outlines, (and the way the society and country runs as a whole), I saw that the benefits far outweighed the downsides.

    One of the things I noticed about Korea is the general historical respect for education, scholars, and just for being able to *do* something very well.

    I also noticed how strong “school” culture is. There are endless shops for every imaginable school supply, and bookstores are filled with study guides. There are commercials on kid’s TV about some study method to get better grades (note many are aimed at kids, and the pride of knowing the answer, rather than aimed at parents.) Many parents (especially mothers) do all kinds of extra work to send their kids to good schools,or overseas to learn English. Many parents compete with one another to make sure that, if their child cannot be a *great* student, he/or she will at least not fall behind. Many parents begin educating their children as soon as they are born, and see their role as being their child’s first teacher. The daughter of one of my fellow teachers had tons of books for a child who was barely old enough to read.

    Kids there are in school or in some sort of class a lot. Early in the morning, and late at night, more days of the year. I think that a lot of Korean kids are in school too much, but, there is a benefit of many young people being too busy to get into too much trouble.

    For one thing, in my opinion, South Korea benefits from being surrounded by the ocean and a closed border to the north. Plus the country is only the size of Indiana. So it’s a lot easier to keep undesirable things out. For Korea’s schoolkids that means no drugs and no guns (for the most part). Penalties for even being in possession of a tiny bit of drugs are harsh. You can’t buy prescription or even over-the-counter drugs there any time of day. The pharmacies close at night.

    Also, there is a national enthusiasm/need (historical inferiority complex) in Korea to be recognized, I think. Starvation, war, and colonial rule are all in living memory. There is a hunger to be the best, and locally, to one -up Japan.

    The schools there are changing the rote memorization style of the past, so I don’t know how much the idea of the historical “robot” children applies today.

    Another aspect of Korean education is the national pride that is instilled at school. Some of the history taught is fabricated, I believe, but Korean people “know who they are”, so to speak. Regardless of whether someone gets rich in Silicon valley, or runs some hole-in-the-wall mom and pop shop down the street, there is a general baseline society of literate people who value sophisticated things (even among people who are not smart or sophisticated).

    A sad thing is I think that promising people in the African-American community are surrounded by enemies, or at very least, lacking accessible people who can mentor them in their area of talent. There’s all the help in the world for someone who wants to bounce a damn basketball, but for a budding scientist or fine artist, (contributors to *real* advancement) are few. Their success if often in spite of opposition of their friends, family, and other people who look like them.

    GoldenAh: Hello Adrienne! Wow, nice blog. I must visit the Far East, before I’m not able to. I always want to travel while I’m still in great shape and can handle all that walking around, etc.

    Props to you for teaching in another country. I get stressed out if I have to give a presentation to a group of people, but I love to travel.

    I think we’ll always have a small number of black families embracing education in spite of the odds. But it will be like salmon going up against the tide. The general culture of this country is very anti-education and anti-intellectual now-a-days, like there’s something wrong with wanting to learn, so everybody should aim for the lowest common denominator. The Korean aspect of it makes all the sense in the world. They notice what’s so obvious to stay motivated, committed and competitive, whereas we keep hunting for the answer. This is all about self-love, pride and respect for heritage. Did black people forget or don’t know it used to be illegal for the slaves to learn to read? Now, it’s all twisted. Being educated is a bad thing and “keeping it real” is authentic, so ignorance and illiteracy is embraced. Even writing this makes me realize how upside down everything has become.

    Thank you so much for your comments, Adrienne. :)

  3. trish
    January 23rd, 2013 @ 2:11 AM

    Well said. It is a sad state of affairs. I have said it before; at this point, we will only have individual successful blacks, not a successful collective. Black male leadership consists of getting black males to be the first this, and that, all else be damned. It is quite sickening. I would rather have a successful black collective than the first “black” president any day. I would say more but it is just too painful.

    GoldenAh: I, too, would prefer a large entrepreneurial, prosperous, well-educated, healthy and stable black middle class over the mess we have now. I don’t live on symbolism. I could not care less about all the pomp and circumstance; coronations for faux royalty bore me. I’m not feeling these black male peacocks making “history” while the masses have a standard of living and asset value that’s sliding back towards the 1950s…. I’m starting to wonder why we even have a federal government, since its sole intent seems to be in putting everyone into the poor house then out into the streets.

    Frankly, I miss Bill Clinton. I can’t stand his wife, but sometimes I think we’d be better off if Billary was in the White House. At least he understands the economy and cares about the country….

  4. Jazine
    January 23rd, 2013 @ 9:57 AM

    Thank you, Betty. A lot of Asians became competitive not because they are inherently smarter or things come “easy” to them. They are disciplined and consistent with their education. I knew Asian students in undergrad who struggled with math but worked their butts off to get good grades.

    What gets me angry is that people have washed their hands of black children for decades now when it comes to academic achievement. The black intellectuals and educators really get me mad because they co-sign to having black children, and I am specifically talking about African-American black children, having different, which means inferior set of standards. These same blacks who excelled academically and got competitive scores on the standardized tests are advocating for black underachievement. I feel too many educators think it’s too late for black children. To push them to be competitive academically is too much. Of course this lowering of the bar has a lot to do with the knee-jerk “it’s white racism that made us this way, so we should be given special treatment” for our below average performance.

    My nieces are not being coddled to fail. Both their black parents are not having that. My sister and brother-in-law are active in their children’s learning. It helps their both college educated and the father has his degree in mathematics, but even parents who do not have higher education can play an active role in their children’s education, but it takes courage, consistency, and discipline. I’m afraid too many of us lack these qualities because we don’t like being inconvenienced. Great post, Betty. Thanks!

    GoldenAh: Hello Jazine! Thank you. I don’t know why people have given up on the kids. Maybe they are worse off mentally or in aptitude than previous generations? I’ve stepped inside some of the schools around my area – I’ve forgotten how tiny children are and how big the books they carry – but it’s mostly white, Asians with a handful of black / Latino. I don’t know what’s going on, but the schools rank pretty high. Although on occasion I’ll see in the papers that a smart black girl gets listed along with the other white and Asian honor students.

    Do we notice that? When it comes to stepping up and being competitive there’s a little black girl that is always able to roll with the big dogs? What’s going on with the boys?

  5. Jazine
    January 23rd, 2013 @ 9:59 AM

    Sorry for the typos, I meant “it helps they’re both college educated”

    GoldenAh: No problem. I’m horrified at the mistakes in my posts, but I can’t be bothered to fix ‘em. :D

  6. MsMellody
    January 24th, 2013 @ 1:35 AM

    Note to all – lets spend more time out doors with our kids….

    http://www.mnn.com/health/fitness-well-being/stories/breathing-soil-bacteria-makes-you-smarter

    GoldenAh: Thanks for the link, MsMellody. When I was a kid, I was outdoors all day until I got called in. Today, I see that children barely go outside, and if they do, they are watched intently and the time is limited. Very interesting.

  7. Nadia
    January 24th, 2013 @ 1:56 PM

    Can you delete my previous post? Slightly condensed version split into two posts.

    Since when does studying hard to get an education and receiving a high pay job because of that result in traumatization? So now Asians are getting ahead because they’re gaming the educational system with tests? Please. She needs to get her life. I don’t believe you. You need more people.

    Even if that were true. That doesn’t answer the question of why black kids are last in the nation with education and jobs. Because everyone on the planet is not gaming the educational system. She’s making excuses. Game Recognize Game. Next!

    Aren’t many modern electronics originated and are still made and imported to the U.S from Japan and China that most people in the U.S. use? They must be doing something right. Some people are really simple. Asian people are not born with a ‘Special Gene’ that makes them extremely intelligent. There parents simply made education a priority, because they wanted there kids to grow up to have top high paying jobs in society. Similar to how white people go to school to get high paying jobs.

    Am I missing something? – Isn’t that what everyone on the planet wants? Isn’t that what people have been doing since the beginning of time? Getting a quality education that leads to a high paying job?

    That’s similar to when people used to say black people were less intelligent than white people because there brains were smaller. Or black people were meant to be slaves because they’re used to working hard. Or black women can face and survive any burden, and they’re supposed to be single mothers because they’re ‘Strong Black Women’. I don’t know why some blacks are acting simple about this, and don’t make education a priority. But they will not be leeching off me because they have several generations of entire families who refused to to learn a trade or get an education – even if they’re members of my own family.

    I’m not about that life. I’m not here for that. Its not my fault or concern that many blacks will continue to fail at life if they continue to think this way. Your right Betty, if black people tried to create their own society seperate from the rest of the planet, it would collapse. Because they don’t have the proper tools and skills to survive. Many blacks take for granted the welfare system, the housing projects they live in, and the white police force that prevents mass rape and murder in black communities that has been put in place by whites.

    Some blacks will always be mentally stuck on the ‘Plantation.’ They should be ignored. Where is ‘The Black Church’? ‘The Black Activists’? ‘The Good Black Men’? Silent – Until a black boy/man is killed by non whites, or the victim of ‘White Racism.’ While many individual blacks are ‘Winning’ in the game of life. The black people who are in denial about how life works should be left behind to do what they want with their life. They will either perish or succeed. Black children are not too stupid to learn. Many blacks just don’t see education as a priority.

    GoldenAh: We don’t realize a lot of countries still charge parents to send their kids to school. But we take those “free” first 12 years of schooling for granted. What’s that old saying? You can lead a horse to water, but cannot make him drink.

    Is there ever going to be a change where education gets prioritized? I sincerely doubt it. But there’s no one preventing black people from succeeding except for themselves.

    So, there was a heartbreaking story in the news: a girl from Chicago who went to Obama’s coronation was shot. She was top A student. Even when the kids try to thrive and do well the parasites will try, and sometimes succeed, in killing them off. It’s horrible. News reports said that supposedly it wasn’t “that kind of neighborhood”. Well, now it is.

  8. Nadia
    January 24th, 2013 @ 2:01 PM

    Not materialistic – A poster I saw in middle school.(In my early 30′s now) Has anyone seen this poster before? LOL at the helicopter.

    ‘JUSTIFICATION FOR HIGHER EDUCATION’
    http://www.movieposter.com/posters/archive/main/107/MPW-53732

    The film Dangerous Minds is a great example of teenagers of all races that grow up in bad neighborhoods. They have a choice of being a victim or doing something to better their life.

    ‘THERE ARE NO VICTIMS IN THIS CLASSROOM!’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBQf9noA7xY

  9. Faith
    January 25th, 2013 @ 12:34 AM

    I had a little chuckle at “trope” as well. A hint of intelligentsia pontificating, perhaps? Or is bloviating a better descriptor? Anyway, only people who want to play dumb will ignore what time it REALLY is and make the necessary adjustments. For various reasons as has been discussed in the BWE-sphere AAs will be a permanent underclass within the US and of course globally. American students are already behind as a whole anyway, so those that occupy the bottom percentile are even worse off. If education and achievement was a priority for AAs then the “community” would properly address its shortcomings.

    And on a side note, I didn’t pay much attention to the (4th Bush term) inauguration of Obama, but was mightily annoyed that Bouncy was allowed to perform yet again. And I’ve also noted how certain favored bloggers got invited to a “digital disruptors” meet and greet at the White House who promote an uncritical look at the Obama policies and find the concept of being a disruptor hilarious for people towing the party line for head pats.

    If we’re going to talk “education” where’s the CRITICAL THINKING skill set?

    GoldenAh: I was a bit taken aback. How does that person think South Korea, or a number of Asian countries, climbed the ranks of nations so quickly? I understand the purpose was to say the grass wasn’t greener, but we’re so effed up, I’d take anything they are doing by half-measure just to catch up. Folks aren’t even trying over here anymore. I was given extra work in High School due to boredom, then I started researching and reading on my own. Heck, I’m still curious. I know all of us who read and write here are this way.

    Plus, I believe if the US school system in urban areas started out “tough”, thorough, and with lots of discipline kids would get in the habit of expecting hard work and could cope.

    Ah, yes, the coronation of his highness. The folks waiting for a special pat on the head for being uncritical cheerleaders of the regime are going to find themselves rudely awakened. The dismantling is starting already. At CNN, heads are rolling. I expect more body dumps. The sycophants have done their jobs, so they’re no longer needed. Oh, well.

    Faith, do you suspect that you’re on some kind of “bad blogger list”? I have a feeling that anyone who has written anything not-so-adoringly of that person with the Emperor-King-Sun-God-complex is on it. I mean, there is a list of Americans he’s willing to kill overseas. I just don’t see the guy setting a limit on this kind of thing….

    For me, it doesn’t matter who is in office, we should always be suspicious of our government. There’s no one alive who doesn’t love power, and unquestioning power and adulation will corrupt….

  10. Lita
    January 25th, 2013 @ 1:19 AM

    Faith – ‘And on a side note, I didn’t pay much attention to the (4th Bush term) inauguration of Obama, but was mightily annoyed that Bouncy was allowed to perform yet again.’

    <>

    Thanks for pointing that out!- Why do you call her bouncy? I thought I was the only one who was annoyed that ‘Bouncy’ is chosen to perform at major historical events because of her popularity, while other black singers with genuine talent are overlooked. I was deeply offended that she sang the Etta James song. Etta James should have been chosen to sing for the Obamas or at least a more qualified black singer. Because Etta James died shortly afterwards, and that would’ve been good for her. I liken Beyonce to a vegas performer/stripper.

    Flashy outfits with autotuned songs. There’s nothing wrong with vegas performers/strippers. But with today’s music. Genuine singing talent being replaced with auto tuned songs and vegas stripper performers. Today’s music is crap. She looks whiter everyday with her blonde hair. She looked better with darker hair. And that pancake makeup she uses that makes her skin appear lighter. Not saying black women can’t dye their hair any color. Just saying with Beyonce. No one can say its a coincidence that the more famous she became, the blonder her hair became.

  11. Lecie
    January 25th, 2013 @ 1:39 AM

    Fascinating posts, and I completely agree. I have always done well in school. While it’s true that I genuine like to learn, I also worked my butt off. And this little black girl form a working class background went from the talented and gifted program, to a full ride to college, and a tuition-free law degree. But that didn’t happen overnight.

    I enjoyed my summer breaks, but they weren’t all ice cream and bike riding. No, I was doing spelling, grammar and math drills in elementary school. In middle and HS I went to an enrichment program almost every summer. I started applying to scholarships and working on my college essays in 9th grade. When I got to Georgia Tech and was stumped by calculus and computer science (I studied History & Sociology of Technology in the liberal arts school) I got my behind to office hours and the tutoring program EVERY week.

    My parents drilled it into me early on that education would help me make the life I wanted for myself. I knew in KINDERGARTEN that I was going to college, even though I didn’t know what it was. It was never an option to not go, so I did what I had to do in order to achieve that. And when I got bullied to the extent that public school was no longer an option (apparently I surpassed the level of nerdiness that was acceptable even amongst the talented & gifted kids), my parents came up with the money to send me to private school. They were at every open house and PTA meeting and my mother served a term on the local school board. There’s simply no substitute for involved parenting and personal effort, and the Asians have learned that lesson. It’s time we did too.

    GoldenAh: Hello, Lecie! Very impressive background you have. I admire stories such as yours. You knew what you wanted at an early age. I hope other young women are inspired to do just as well. I think today young people have no choice, but to focus on the future. I don’t think I even thought about college until High School. Yeah, I was pretty much in dreamland most of the time. :P

    I had a desire to be a lawyer (among other things), but that feeling waxed and waned over the years. I admit to being too lazy to do it. I preferred programming. Maybe because the feedback on my efforts was more immediate or something. I love to write, but man, is it hard work. LOL.

    Excellent points about parental involvement, Lecie. Great support, even if parents aren’t able to tutor, but just show up at the PTA meetings, is more than sufficient. I was self-motivated, and did everything myself – school forms, financial aid, etc. I am amazed at what parents do for kids just to get them into good schools and colleges.

    Thanks for stopping by, Lecie, your comments are much appreciated. :)

  12. MsMellody
    January 25th, 2013 @ 9:16 AM

    Thanks for the Part II of this discussion, Betty!

    You know in my comment above concerning “taking our kids outdoors”..I really hope no one thought that that comment was dismissive in any way shape or form.

    What I was simply trying to do was point out one of the “subtle” less discussed issues deep inside this milieu of the dysfunctionality.

    Taking our kids out doors on a regular basis – would of course entail safe communities with dedicated play sources.

    Do these exist in abundance in the all black communities of note around the country?…waiting for that answer…well…

    The “culture” of having dedicated clean green spaces, parks, safety exists in communities that have a dedicated history of providing and protecting for their own kind ( in both thought process, values etc)

    Then how is that you would gain access to this type of “culture”..by valuing education and higher education that will automatically vault you to mingling with men of a certain economic stability etc.

    Then after the mingling- through community of education/locale etc, comes the dating and marriage.

    And from the forming of marriage bonds comes the living amongst others who have done the same or mostly the same of the above and these are the people who make up the constellation of your neighbors/neighborhood/school district.

    Then after this comes the children who will fill up the desks in these school districts..then you rinse, lather and repeat same said process.

    And voila – more kids to build strong communities that concentrate on safety, green spaces, dedicated play locations and beneficial bacteria in the soil!!!

    Wow! That was fun connecting the dots!!!

    GoldenAh: You make a great point with the link(s), because a child needs a whole environment that helps nourish their mind, spirit and body. I don’t think that need or requirement goes away as adults either. A parent does have to consider moving to a location that starts with a good environment: lots of natural resources, plenty of sunshine and low-crime. It shouldn’t be impossible with a country this big, but even I see a good place to live as being only a few locations. And I sometimes feel I should relocate, but I need to get my house in order first.

    Always feel free to add what you want to the discussion, MsMellody, although it doesn’t hurt to describe the intent as well. :)

  13. Faith
    January 25th, 2013 @ 2:39 PM

    Lita, Beyonce is “Bouncy” because she shakes her behind and girates. It’s a little deeper than mere snark, but an apt description of her behavior. It has also been rumored that she takes pills to lighten her skin tone or whatever procedure Lil Kim and Sammy Sosa have done to bleach their skin, though not as dramatic as Sosa. I can’t ignore the commodity of lighter skin amongst those with conquered mentalities in and out of the black community, but seeing as it has value to them, I’m not surprised at the lengths some people will go to for inclusion.

  14. Lita
    January 25th, 2013 @ 2:47 PM

    Thanks for clarifying Faith. Most black singers today act like strippers instead of singers. Today’s music is a lost cause. That’s ‘Bouncy’s career. Another black woman who is not proud of her heritage.

  15. Oshun
    January 25th, 2013 @ 11:58 PM

    Interesting. I had always heard that math and to a lesser extent hard science were the two disciplines that could not be skewed with bias – so I don’t understand how black students could not excel in those areas- particularly math.

    @ Adrienne

    “Many parents compete with one another to make sure that, if their child cannot be a *great* student, he/or she will at least not fall behind. Many parents begin educating their children as soon as they are born, and see their role as being their child’s first teacher.”

    This! I actually did this with a lot of the children in my family. I bought educational toys for many years for each of them. It just seemed like the thing to do.

    “A sad thing is I think that promising people in the African-American community are surrounded by enemies, or at very least, lacking accessible people who can mentor them in their area of talent. There’s all the help in the world for someone who wants to bounce a damn basketball, but for a budding scientist or fine artist, (contributors to *real* advancement) are few. Their success if often in spite of opposition of their friends, family, and other people who look like them.”

    And let the church say – sadly – amen.

  16. Oshun
    January 26th, 2013 @ 12:15 AM

    @ Trish. Sadly you are right.

    @Jazine

    “These same blacks who excelled academically and got competitive scores on the standardized tests are advocating for black underachievement.”

    You nailed it. I thought/felt the same thing.

    @Nadia

    “That doesn’t answer the question of why black kids are last in the nation with education and jobs.”

    Its a number of reasons. Adrienne talked about starting with babies. With an 80% singleness rate that type of nurture/teaching is not going to happen re- education. And you have generations of H.S. dropouts giving birth to more H.S. dropouts etc…

    As far as jobs (and I think of Khadijah’s posts) AA’s should not have abandoned their independent economic infrastructure: banks, insurance companies,realtors and other businesses. If that still existed there would be less of a need to worry about the “white man keeping me down and out.” So now AA’s have to go out into the dominant culture and compete after:

    1. being isolated all their lives in black enclaves that reinforce dysfunction around education and upward mobility
    2. being anti-white and not being trained to have the presentation skills, verbal skills, comfort, and strategic thinking to successfully network and interact with nonblacks to their advantage

    I could go on, but those are just a few reasons..

  17. Oshun
    January 26th, 2013 @ 12:31 AM

    @ Nadia

    “Where is ‘The Black Church’? ‘The Black Activists’? ‘The Good Black Men’? Silent – Until a black boy/man is killed by non whites, or the victim of ‘White Racism.’”

    Actually they are busy peddling poison to BW. My brother’s minister recently preached a sermon where he told the BM of the congregation not to marry a BW who had less than he had. She should have her own car, home, job etc and you should build something together. He also suggested that after marriage that the man move into her house.

    I said to my mom who heard this – surely you all misunderstood and that is not what he said from the pulpit.

    So then I started thinking aloud and even past the mule/user stuff in my head I was like if I worked hard and bought a home there is no way I would move a man into it – husband or no. His name would be no where on the deed. If I died before he did – its all his and our children’s, but otherwise…umm no

    And then I asked my mom whether she owned a home when she married either 1st or 2nd time. She said no and then everybody’s face cracked and fell on the floor. Nobody was laughing or tee-heeing then. I said according to this minister’s criteria you would never have gotten married – as both of her husbands put her into homes and it was only until after my dad died that she began to drive as he did all the driving.

    Then I kept wondering aloud that all of the women in my family including the young ones who married were not homeowners prior to marriage. They married and then bought a home and accumulated other things throughout the marriage.

    I apologize for the rambling. Not trying to derail the conversation, but this is just too much to wrap my head around. I am so glad I no longer deal with black folks and soon I will be out of this region of the country.

  18. Oshun
    January 26th, 2013 @ 12:38 AM

    @ MsMellody

    So you mean all that mudpie making was good for me?! LOL! :)

    @ Faith

    “American students are already behind as a whole anyway, so those that occupy the bottom percentile are even worse off.”

    This is frighteningly true.

    @ Lita

    “I thought I was the only one who was annoyed that ‘Bouncy’ is chosen to perform at major historical events because of her popularity, while other black singers with genuine talent are overlooked. I was deeply offended that she sang the Etta James song. Etta James should have been chosen to sing for the Obamas or at least a more qualified black singer.”

    I agree. I was like for real? You are going to diss Miss. Etta?

    And I miss talent. Black talent. Songs that are sophisticated, intelligent, thoughtful, and that make me feel something inside…

  19. Oshun
    January 26th, 2013 @ 4:56 AM

    @ Nadia

    “Aren’t many modern electronics originated and are still made and imported to the U.S from Japan and China that most people in the U.S. use? They must be doing something right.”

    If I remember correctly, we used to be the largest exporter of electronic goods etc up until a certain time period. Then Japan devised business methods that made the process leaner and therefore cheaper. Instead of the U.S. copying or innovating to counter this – they just allowed this business sector to be taken away. Then came outsourcing and the like…so now it is what it is.

  20. Nadia
    January 26th, 2013 @ 5:25 PM

    Oshun – Thanks for exposing more poison on ‘The Black Church’. Some blacks will always be in denial about how ‘The Black Church’ is using and poisoning its own people. And the 411 on importing and outsourcing of goods from foreign countries. Which is good – some U.S. citizens act like americans invented everything, and we don’t need help from other countries when it comes to modern day products that americans use every day, or how other countries come to each other’s aid during times of war.

  21. Oshun
    January 27th, 2013 @ 10:36 AM

    @ Nadia

    You are welcome. :)

    I had heard the wait and pray for a man message coming from the black church- which is/was bad enough!

    But what I quoted above sounded more like a minister encouraging BM to basically “lay up” and use women. As in the past few years, BM have always aimed for and bitterly complained about middle class or striving BW. Those are the BW who are more likely to be educated and thus, would be more likely to have a home and the good insurance, and the retirement fund.. etc This feels like encouraging some dude to ride on an upwardly mobile BW’s coat tails.

    Most people tell women (particularly, from other groups) not to marry men who have less than they do. Not men. {{shudder}} If men are the protectors and providers and the woman is doing all the providing and moving him into her house after marriage – then he contributes what to her uplifment? Wow!

    Regarding Japan vs America and electronics – I am going to have to respectfully disagree with you. :) What Japan did was not to help the U.S. – it was to help Japan and its economy! :) This was about competition.

    America’s dominance in that area was good for us, our workforce (jobs), and our economy. When Japan made its competitive moves to gain ground on the American lead – American companies refused to respond with changes of their own to keep their companies competitive. So America lost those plants and jobs.

    Then outsourcing/offshoring began to pick up speed and that eliminated even more American manufacturing jobs by sending them to other countries.

    A lot of communities (where these plants and their suppliers were located) were devastated by this and even this many years later have not economically recovered.

    In light of this, its important for BW to be alert to the broader societal and international shifts – to stay competitive!

  22. JaliliMaster
    January 28th, 2013 @ 11:29 AM

    @ Oshun, it’s telling that the minister only applied that to BW. I doubt he would discourage bm from marrying ww who have nothing, especially as these are the kinds of non-bw that bm can get. For many of these so-called ministers, it is just a hustle. They carry their anti-bw propaganda onto the pulpit, and cloak it as some divine message, AND they get paid to do it. Basically, it’s like rap ‘music’, but without the beats. They completely disgust me!

    RE Japan: they got on to a good hustle. Let others invent stuff, then find ways to make them even cheaper. The chinese version was to make knock-off versions of other people’s stuff. We all made fun of them, but who’s laughing now? It seems that nowadays, everything is made in China! Many in the west hadn’t cottoned on to what was happening (or were too stupid/arrogant to realise it) until it was too late.

    This is what almost led to the downfall of the American car industry. Rather than make cars that people actually wanted and could be sold globally, US automakers decided to guilt trip/cajole Americans into buying ‘American’. Meanwhile, foreign carmakers were making cars for as wide a market as possible (hybrids/fuel efficient, size, countries, affordability etc). Something had to give. Now, the only country that really buys American cars is China. Not because they like the cars but because they like the idea of being the ones in the ‘power position’, i.e buying stuff from American labour, rather than Americans paying for Chinese labour, which is what most were used to.

  23. Eva
    January 28th, 2013 @ 3:53 PM

    Great post.

    I have been working with Asians for about 30 years now. No, they don’t have a special “smart gene” but they do know how to do things the right way.

    Most of the Asians I have worked with are Chinese. When these women look for a man, they look for a man who has something going for him. One woman told me about the “three P’s”. One was “Ph.D, the other was “permanent residence” and I don’t remember what the third was, but the point is that the women weren’t looking for a man who was “fine” or who had a “hot body,” they were looking for a man who had something on the ball, who had an education, who would be able to provide for his family.

    A Chinese woman I used to work with, was looking for a home, she wanted to find a home in a good school district, so she decided to call the high schools and ask them what percentage of their students went on to Ivy League schools? Actually, I was the one who made those calls, since she had a very thick accent and was worried that she wouldn’t be understood and since I sounded more “American” (meaning white), it was best if I called.

    Very interesting.

    GoldenAh: The list of what’s desired in a man is common sense. And it’s reinforced by the fact that those men make sure they are on point when looking for a wife. I’ve met Asian guys who will come out and state his education, salary and background, because he’s mature enough to know what he should be bringing to the table. A lot of white men I’ve encountered are the same, but unfortunately, I’ve never come across black guys like that, unless he’s an immigrant. I know there will be some folks who’ll declare there are plenty of black men like this, but maybe they fly right when they’re chasing pale skinned women. I call them purple unicorns, because if I can meet all other races of men with their heads on straight, what’s going on with the “brothas”?

    When it comes to their children, I’ve yet to meet to Asian woman who won’t go whatever lengths is necessary to make sure they get ahead. They’re very persistent. I admire that. This may be stereotyping, but for all their killer instincts about school / work, they are by and large the most easygoing group of people to socialize and work with sometimes.

    Thanks for stopping by, Eva, and commenting! :)

  24. JK
    January 29th, 2013 @ 11:46 AM

    Your post is very timely.

    I live in one of the wealthiest counties in my State in an affluent suburb.
    Our neighborhood public school just held it’s 4th and 5th grade spelling bee.
    Each classroom sent two finalist to the school spelling bee.  My daughter was the only African-American out of 24 students in the finals.  (the school actually has a decent amount of African-American students, thanks in large part to multiple apartment complexes which feed into our school).   
    The spelling bee progressed as I thought it would and the last three standing were an Indian boy, an Asian girl and an Asian boy.  As they spelled words which astonished all the adults in the room, it became apparent to me that these kids had memorized ALL the words on the list.  They didn’t know them from birth, weren’t just naturally brilliant, but had worked their butts off to learn as many of the words as they could.  (The children were given the list two weeks prior.  I advised my daughter how to prepare, but she chose not to follow my advice.  I later explained to her that although she is very intelligent and a hard worker, it is her work ethic which will propel her).

    Americans in general have gotten soft.  And don’t get me started on African-Americans.  When the Asian influx started to affect my neighborhood, there were actually white kids bringing lawsuits when an Asian student beat them out for the valedictorian spot.  I once heard a white man lamenting that his children had to study so hard (and not have fun in their high school years).  It’s a new day.  The Asians are hard working, family focused and dedicate time and energy to the development of their children.  They are ready to meet the demands of the future.  20 years ago the party line was that “yes, Asians do well in school, but all they do is study.”  Well they were listening and have adapted.  There is hardy an extracurricular sport or activity in our community where they cannot be found!  

    Our people can take several lessons from them.  Starting with the women and how to choose the father of your children!

    Black children ARE NOT too dumb to learn!!
    Are their parents too dumb, self-absorbed, or lazy to parent?  That’s another question.

    GoldenAh: Congratulations to your daughter, JK. She’s not afraid to compete and learning from her mistakes will teach her how to do better in the future. And you are right, being “smart” is not enough, we have to grind a bit to make sure we get past the finish line.

    There’s so much information about school systems at our fingertips. It’s much easier than in the past; the rankings, graduation rates and everything a person needs to know about any school is on the Internet. People are lucky today. Whatever they want to know is right there. I wish this kind of information was around back in my day. I had to make due with whatever I could find out about schools and colleges from word-of-mouth or looking at books with out-dated information.

    I hear you on Asians doing more than just studying bit now. That’s why I even spent a little time writing about J-Lin (when he played for the NY Knicks). He went to Harvard and plays professional sports. And I expect to see more of them as pro-players – whatever the league – in the future…

    And you come full circle JK – it all starts with who the mothers decide will be the fathers of their children. Black women cannot sleep on this front.

    Great comment, JK, thank you for chiming in.

  25. Oshun
    February 1st, 2013 @ 12:16 PM

    In general…

    I am kind of disturbed by the relationship between them and the Carters. I don’t care how much money the Carters make – they are not the same. Is it so that they can have access to the black vote, keeping it real…what? Or is he sincerely enamored of JayZ..baby daddy ex drug dealer and all?

    GoldenAh: I’m reminded of someone asking that kind of question, in a hair salon eons ago, about why LL Cool J and Mike Tyson were so tight.

    Well, I figure that when people hang out in certain circles they become acquainted and start liking each other.

    I can come up with some reasons, which are not entirely serious by the way:
    1. They are all the same shade of brown, except for MO.
    2. JZ & BO are true hustlers and got where they are based on extreme self-laudatory and braggadocio-type communication skills. Hence, the mutual admiration.
    3. They are all part of the miniscule sized corporate / government black elite. They’re able to call inaccessible people and get a hold of them, along with being able to attend exclusive events, etc.
    4. When it comes to dismissive eye-rolls, questionable etiquette and deplorable table manners at hoity-toity functions MO and Bee appear able to “keep it real.” Perhaps for them, social graces are overrated and they probably haven’t got a clue. So, why bother?
    5. MO and Bee have a sort-of similar taste in clothing. While their outfits can be very expensive with a customized fit, their efforts to make them look unique or “fabulous” is sometimes “off” and not quite right. Simple would work to make them look elegant, but these women aren’t having it.
    5. MO and Bee are Daddy’s daughters.
    6. JZ & BO grew up without fathers, maybe absentee mothers, with other relatives “raising” them. Both men are a byproduct of self-creation.
    7. JZ wants to be a billionaire. I’m certain that when BO leaves the White House, he’ll “cash in” as well.

    I would add more, but … fans of these folks might get mad at me. :D

  26. JaliliMaster
    February 7th, 2013 @ 3:08 AM

    Goldenah, you have opened a real can of worms with your reply to Oshun. As much as I like MO, I have to agree with you on nos 4 & 5. When folks were making noise about the eye-roll that never happened, no one seemed to notice (or atleast it wasn’t mentioned) the poor table manners. It was especially sad because she knew that cameras were rolling! Either one doesn’t know or one doesn’t care. I don’t know which one is worse!

    As for BO, I can no longer be surprised by his Jay-Z ‘friendship’, not since during his campaign in ’08, he went up to a podium at a rally with a Jay-Z song playing. The song was ’99 Problems’. I assumed whoever chose that song aimed it at Hillary (and for the record, I would pick Obama over Hillary any day). BO’s arrogance astounds me. I recall Bey’s letter to the First Lady was made public. How someone so rich can sound so uneducated…….? And to think this is someone that black kids look up to. Well, atleast I enjoyed her Super Bowl performance. Next time, she should just let Kelly take the stage and not bother turning up!

    GoldenAh: I don’t want to come across as attacking MO. I don’t have any issues with her. She’s just there to me. I view her as being “She is what she is”. I’m amused by the way the media tries so hard to make her more than that. Him too. They made history. That was all good, but the aftermath is about overall performance.

    The thing is, Ivy League Universities or any kind of colleges don’t do more than give people a basis for networking, learning Western Civ classics, thinking in a certain manner (Socratic, Critical, etc), and getting on in life (opening doors to better jobs). But they don’t teach stuff that folks should have learned from their parents or finishing schools like basic etiquette, table manners or social graces. It doesn’t take much to pick up on this stuff if one wants to. But the issue is if one feels comfortable in hoity-toity arenas as though they belong there, or are they suffering from a kind of “impostor” syndrome. And that could rear its head whether the person is aware of it or not.

    MO eye-rolls. Does the mean mug face. Screws her face up something terrible. She can barely manage the diplomatic blank face or slight smile. Angry or dour face is her look. She’s been to enough clink and tink events that she should know how to behave, especially at her age. {{Shrug}} Hey, whatever….

    For some reason, Bee and JZ don’t bother or irk me at all. Maybe it’s because they don’t have any real power to affect people’s lives unless folks wanted them to. They are very easy to ignore.

    Hillary’s advantage is that she has Bill Clinton, who managed a successful economy. He’s been there and done that. Even though she’s amoral, at least with him around, the country would be better off – even if by a marginal degree.

    But since everybody in this country is happy with the way things are…. {{Shrug}} Whatevers. :)

  27. Oshun
    February 9th, 2013 @ 12:22 PM

    @ JaliliMaster

    I agree that the minister would have made a huge exception for a nonBW.

    I do think that it is a hustle, hence, I am disturbed by those who say they are “called”. One can be called to be a nurse or doctor as well, but you still have to attend nursing or medical school.

    I am not a Christian, but was raised in the church and I have heard things from some ministers that were totally unbiblically sound and people just went along with it.

    I am also disturbed by this crop of black “relationship experts” just popping up. Not just Steve Harvey and ilk, but they are everywhere and the things they spout are just lunacy.

    I was on BlogTalk and came across a show hosted by a very dark single British woman and a married Black American man. They were discussing beauty and trying to make some kind of statement how women who have cosmetic procedures are insecure blah blah and you should love and accept yourself.

    But the man asked why was Nikki Minaj’s hair longer and blonder than his white wife’s? And then he said now little black girls and women will try to emulate that. I was sick. Nikki Minaj’s hair is longer and blonder than his wife’s because she wants to appeal to BM. That is what BM find attractive. And little black girls will follow for the same reason Nikki did – to be more attractive to BM.

    And this guy would talk as if he were still single. Making referencing to women he would simply sleep with vs marry etc…

    I don’t see how women BW especially the cohost let this stuff slide.

  28. Oshun
    February 9th, 2013 @ 12:27 PM

    Continued:

    “RE Japan: they got on to a good hustle. Let others invent stuff, then find ways to make them even cheaper. The chinese version was to make knock-off versions of other people’s stuff.”

    I talked to a man who worked in the steel industry for a long time and he told me that the car companies said that it would be too expensive to restructure their businesses to make the more competitive when they saw what the Japanese were doing.

    Which made no sense because lean manufacturing and Six Sigma saves money and reduces errors. The killing part is the industry eventually adopted these practices, but only after they had lost so much market share/dominance to other countries. It could be said that they never fully recovered from being so slow/late to adopt those practices and technologies.

  29. Oshun
    February 9th, 2013 @ 12:31 PM

    Congratulations JK to your daughter for making it that far!

    She learned a really valuable lesson and learned it early.

  30. Oshun
    February 9th, 2013 @ 12:36 PM

    @Goldenah

    LOL – I am dying here! Stop!

    Co signing on the outfits.

    Table manners? Did I miss something?

    At least Berry Gordy had a finishing school.

    @ JaliliMaster

    I remember the letter. But also look at the way she speaks… She is uneducated that is why she sounds uneducated. At least Fantasia aimed for her GED. There is no excuse for that in this day and age.

  31. Oshun
    February 9th, 2013 @ 4:55 PM

    Re: fake ministers and self styled relationship gurus.

    I think this is highly immoral and unethical. These people know that they don’t have any training, qualifications etc and they are doling out crap as advice to people who desperately need and want genuine guidance and help.

    This will cause more damage to hurting people. You truly have to be lacking a conscience in order to play with people’s lives in this manner.

  32. JaliliMaster
    February 13th, 2013 @ 7:55 AM

    I was on BlogTalk and came across a show hosted by a very dark single British woman and a married Black American man. They were discussing beauty and trying to make some kind of statement how women who have cosmetic procedures are insecure blah blah and you should love and accept yourself.

    It is not uncommon to hear these folks on radio in UK. It is worth mentioning that the most common cosmetic procedure amongst black males is a nose job!

    But the man asked why was Nikki Minaj’s hair longer and blonder than his white wife’s? And then he said now little black girls and women will try to emulate that. I was sick. Nikki Minaj’s hair is longer and blonder than his wife’s because she wants to appeal to BM. That is what BM find attractive. And little black girls will follow for the same reason Nikki did – to be more attractive to BM.

    All said without a hint on irony or self-awareness I’m sure.

    I remember the letter. But also look at the way she speaks… She is uneducated that is why she sounds uneducated. At least Fantasia aimed for her GED. There is no excuse for that in this day and age.

    Lol, Fantasia, haven’t heard about her since her last ‘scandal’ (pregnant by some married man, forced to have an abortion, nervous breakdown, etc or something along those lines). The fact is that in America, education is free up until high school diploma. There is no excuse! And to think that Beyonce once referred to herself as having come from an upper-middle class family. SMH!

  33. Selena
    February 15th, 2013 @ 3:48 PM

    Jazine said:

    My nieces are not being coddled to fail. Both their black parents are not having that. My sister and brother-in-law are active in their children’s learning. It helps their both college educated and the father has his degree in mathematics, but even parents who do not have higher education can play an active role in their children’s education, but it takes courage, consistency, and discipline.

    I couldn’t agree more! I’ve never got into the bigging-up other people based on their race. I give my daughters no slack as well. We’re outnumbered by asians in our area and I’m here to tell you, that they all aren’t these walking robot-computer nerds.

    GoldenAh: Hello, Selena. Thank you for stopping by. I like the theme of your blog. The advice is good.

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