Black Women – Devil’s Advocate: Are Black Males Real Men?

Posted on | September 10, 2010 | 40 Comments

It’s September, and it’s Devil’s Advocate* month.

I was sent a link to this picture. Thanks Chocholatestar.

We don’t know who created it, but it does beg the question: Are black males real men? People like to pretend that out of wedlock (OOW) births are an issue that is the sole responsibility of, and problem for, black women to resolve. It is not. Although black people love to embrace this particular myth, I need to repeat this fact to shatter it. Black culture or societies, whether in America, or around the world are NOT matriarchal. It never has been. Not by accident, not by default, and not by design.

It is a man’s world. Always has been, always will be. People enjoy tossing the words “strong black woman” and matriarchal around to hide a glaringly obvious defect: black males are failing as men. Their sole competitors are other men, not black women. Socially, economically, and developmentally they are lagging behind. Black women cannot fix that problem for them. No matter how financially generous, emotionally supportive, abject, submissive, relentlessly hyper-critical and abnegating of self – you cannot lift nor mold an “adult” black male into a man. It is self-destructive. It is the core of dysfunction.

Years ago, a radio talk show host I was listening to, without an ounce of political correctness in his body, made the following joke:

Question: “What is Father’s Day called in the black community?”

Answer: “Who’s My Daddy Day.”

So not only does a national talk show host know about the situation, it’s considered a joke. Despite what people may think: the joke is on black males, not black women.

Recently, a football coach of a prominent college mentioned that the only recruits that interest him are those with a father involved in his life. I think the coach was one of the few people talking about a strategy that people already utilize without giving voice to. Despite the polite chatter of the mass media, in real life people are quietly and severely penalizing the OOW offspring of black males.

Why? Because if they don’t care about their children, why should they expect others to?

Which brings me to this point: why mess with a male who statistically is predisposed not to marry, provide protection, bring resources to the relationship, offer support, or bother to raise his own children? Jill Scott may wince at “brothas” who are marrying non-black women, but she willingly had a child for one with a I-Am-Irresponsible neon sign over his head.

Is she a masochist? Perhaps.

Black women, do yourselves a favor, don’t join the masochists’ club(s). You are entitled to be happy. Don’t let anybody tell you that you are selfish, greedy, mercenary, a gold digger or desperate, because you seek a MAN who is going to do the things that most normal men around the world automatically do: marry, provide for their families, and raise their children.

Always consider this: there are millions of illegal immigrant MEN willing to face murderous gangs, cross a deadly border, walk for thousands of miles in the desert, eagerly join our military, and work from dust to dawn at sub-minimum wages just to send their meager earnings home to feed, clothe, and shelter HIS WIFE and KIDS.

Why? Because that’s what REAL MEN do.

*According to Wikipedia, Devil’s Advocate is:

In common parlance, a devil’s advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil’s advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position.

Comments

40 Responses to “Black Women – Devil’s Advocate: Are Black Males Real Men?”

Christelyn D. Karazin
September 10th, 2010 @ 3:38 PM

*stands up, claps, and goes to put it up on the NWNW FB fan page. So glad to have you one board, girl!

GoldenAh: Thank you. I think this might be the post I’ll submit.
Anilia
September 10th, 2010 @ 3:53 PM

Oh my gawd!! You have forever broken it down… I don’t have an intelligent comment to add. Except that I wish more of us took the time and analyzed the men we are dating before we become a statistic.

(and I LMAO at that pic… Dude’s sheer look of terror on the left is priceless!)

oh and before someone starts talmbout there are black men who a) don’t have OOW kids/face their responsibilities and b) there are good black men left, instead of posting it here, go ask those good and responsible/kid-free men to go holla at their boys about being better men.

GoldenAh: That picture alone is worth a thousand words.

Oh man, you know some of those excuses by heart too? Probably because we’re heard them so often.

Thanks for the feedback, Anilia.
Sky
September 10th, 2010 @ 5:07 PM

Judge Lynn from Divorce also nailed it as you did Betty. Check out the vid here…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVqfcukbVT8

GoldenAh: Powerful. Simply powerful. She really poured her heart out telling the truth like that.

If I saw a guy like that – I’d run like hell, and I’m one of the slowest runners out there.

Thank you for the links!
Sky
September 10th, 2010 @ 5:29 PM

here’s another one from divorce court episode…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN8rXBNWnsg&p=E455E5BF4892EE8B&playnext=1&index=2
Kev
September 10th, 2010 @ 6:02 PM

I once had a girl friend who had a daughter from a previous relationship. She left me after 4.5 years for a married man. I had just joined the AF and she did not want to leave where she was. I later married someone I met while in the AF and now we have 5 wonderful children ranging in age from 17 to 3 months, 4 daughters and 1 son. I have provided for over 20 years. My wife does not work a paying job outside the home but we volunteer. I grew up without my father present due to divorce. I have the drive to make it. I feel that many men do not. I had no role model but I knew what I wanted; a family of my own. Now I have one and I am growing them to prosper. The men are here. Just look a little deeper. We are the ones that get stepped over by others in the race to get to those whom everyone believes to be more manly. Unassuming and un-noticed they grow up and become the ones who got away. I’m not saying I am one of the ones who got away, but I try. Responsibility is taken seriously here.

GoldenAh: Hello Kev, it is great to hear from you! Strong families make for strong communities, and they have to be led by men. And I say that as someone who isn’t very religious.

I am aware that guys like you exist, because these are (most of, certainly not all) the men in my family.

However, you represent a tiny sliver of a small and shrinking minority. Black women outnumber fellows such as yourself by 2 million, if not more. The ratio of women to men on college campuses is ridiculous.

Asking those of us seeking only a responsible black man (not me though!) to dig a little deeper is akin to suggesting they look for a needle in a haystack. It’s not an appropriate response, solution or answer when it comes to looking for a real man.

The search is extremely difficult considering the absolute and stark gender imbalance, racism, sexism, skin tone and hair texture biases of black males, and the general grief black women must endure. At the end of the day, some women end up happy to see any black male with a pulse and a penis. I cannot blame them.

Thanks for stopping by. Cheers.
Frank M.
September 10th, 2010 @ 6:07 PM

Wow Sky. I had never watched that show but Judge Lynn has my love forever. What a beautiful, intelligent woman.
Kev
September 10th, 2010 @ 6:11 PM

Sorry thats “Unassuming and un-noticed we grow up and become the ones who got away. I’m not saying I am one of the ones who got away, but I try. Responsibility is taken seriously here”
Brown gem
September 10th, 2010 @ 7:33 PM

To sky – wow thank you for that vid. In my knowledge lyn is the only one amongst all these so called black leaders like al crapton that even addresses the state that bm have put their children and women in. No one else speaks to them. Not even their families. Someone had to say it. Hopefully more bm learned from this.
Queen
September 10th, 2010 @ 7:53 PM

Ok Golden AH, I already love your blog but I have to stand up and give you a standing ovation for this one. RIGHT ON!!!!! What you said here nails it:

People enjoy tossing the words “strong black woman” and matriarchal around to hide a glaringly obvious defect: black males are failing as men. Their sole competitors are other men, not black women. Socially, economically, and developmentally they are lagging behind. Black women cannot fix that problem for them. No matter how financially generous, emotionally supportive, abject, submissive, relentlessly hyper-critical and abnegating of self – you cannot lift nor mold an “adult” black male into a man.

It is a serious problem and we as black women have to STOP having babies with these men who are damaged (like Sistah Jill Scott) then complain about their incompetence as men and fathers. They were in this condition when we slept with them.

Nuff Said BRAVO Gurl, BRAVOOOOOOO!!!

GoldenAh: Thank you so much, Queen.

Black women are trying awfully hard to get ahead in this world. They have to stop cutting useless guys slack, especially out of an inappropriate sense of racial solidarity. It’s doing them and their children no good, and it’s causing a world of hurt. We have to raise our standards, and that starts by being able to quickly identify a loser.
Christelyn D. Karazin
September 10th, 2010 @ 8:34 PM

Kudos to you for being a REAL MAN, Kev!
LorMarie
September 10th, 2010 @ 8:44 PM

Yup. Many black men, in defeat, have resorted to competing with women. That is a sure sign of a lack of manhood.

GoldenAh: For a long time, I had no idea they were competing with black women… until I started to notice that these guys loved to dog black women who made any money, dressed smartly, went to school, was promoted to a high position, or did anything remotely successful. Pitiful.
Queen
September 10th, 2010 @ 8:46 PM

Yeah Kev Bravo to you, we need more like you Bro!
Southland Diva
September 10th, 2010 @ 9:09 PM

Well said G!

Women are not men. Period.

Before we give ourselves to a male member of the species, we must make sure he is a responsible, respectful, mature (no, Steve Harvey I don’t mean 50+ ex-player!!!), financially sound, loving, and commitment-oriented man.

We must educate ourselves to recognize quality and not fall for bling or thuggery or swagger! Such a male is a cartoon (or criminal), not a real man!

Peace

GoldenAh: It’s like hitting a restart button. We have to continue to identify who and what is good for us, and stop mincing words about it.

Thanks for the support, Southland Diva.
Brown gem
September 11th, 2010 @ 7:51 AM

kev bravo to you. Despite what it seems we love hearing about our brothers who succeed
CM_Writer on Twitter
September 11th, 2010 @ 8:04 AM

I find this question a bit comical. I’m an attorney. I have represented black men and white men in court and see the same from both groups. I have had clients and seen other men in court who are loving, devoted and responsible. I have seen men who are trifling, clownish and irresponsible. Asking if black men are real men is only touching on part of the issue.

The thing is, as the saying goes, when the larger society gets a cold, we get the flu. The destruction of the black family has been two-fold. And we have to face that or we’ll never heal the situation.

Yes men hold a great responsibility for their families. And yes the absence of black men in the home causes chaos.

A wise person told me once that men think they have the upper hand in relationships, but the truth is women do the choosing.

Black men are as much real men as black women are real women. We are not victims, most of the time we are willing participants.

Men should be held to some kind of standards before we choose them. If he doesn’t meet the standards move on from him.

Men you should hold women to some kind of standards! The gravity of your greatness or lack there of is crushing a blow.

When will we stop blaming and name calling? Because that’s all it is. And it has gotten us nowhere!

Lord knows the only way we can fix what ails our community is through love, forgiveness and rebuilding.

GoldenAh: You’re halfway there.

I’m not proposing a “fix” for the black community. I’m hoping that black women simply find a real man, regardless of race. The ladies require an Emancipation Proclamation freeing them from feeling responsible for “fixing” anything but themselves. They need to focus on their own needs, and not be guilt-tripped into making things right for other folks, especially “adult” black males pretending to be men.

Sistas need to lay their burdens down.

Your argument counts on the rest of society becoming as dysfunctional and screwed up as the worst groups of black people. Not likely. White people do not tolerate the extremely high crime rates blacks allow themselves to fester and decay in. White people have a tipping point and when they get near it they change everything to make it right.

Let’s stop pretending that they’re going to follow us into the gutter, which somehow makes dastardly behavior on our part acceptable.

The fact still stands: black males are falling down in every category when compared to ALL OTHER RACES OF MEN. I didn’t even mention white men at all, but for you folks that’s what gets y’all twitching: “The white man does bad too!” Please. Stop. That. Nonsense.

White folks don’t have a 70%+ OOW rate and they never will. Let’s get real.

Thanks for stopping by, CM_Writer on Twitter, I appreciate the commentary and different perspective.
rainebeaux
September 11th, 2010 @ 5:50 PM

Look, I’m one of those women who made this stupid mistake. If I can come up with 495 (give or take) more words to follow DON’T END UP LIKE ME, well, I hope my essay for NWNW looks something like this post.

OOW, in my mind, translates to: “prepare to take up to 20 years to get anything productive done, struggling with EVERYTHING, always tired, branded as unsuitable for anything short of the occasional booty call (doesn’t matter if you’ve stopped having sex altogether)”. Ladies in the lurking audience, is this really what you want? There will be NO sympathy and very little support (unless you get the state involved, and that’s not even guaranteed)…just deep-fried contempt. Hello, is this thing on!? I don’t want anymore BW or BGs struggling in vain, ESPECIALLY NOT in this manner; it’s a dead end, man.

___

Kudos to you, Kev, but I/we don’t have that kind of time for haystack sorting. When I’m finally suitable for dating, I’ll just widen the net as needed.

GoldenAh: Rainebeaux, you’re just so awesome. {{virtual hugs}}
BWMM
September 11th, 2010 @ 10:06 PM

I read this article about the daughter of Alice Walker. Yeah it’s from her point of view, but it just goes to show we have to think about the effects of our actions on our children. I am grateful for feminism, but I agree with what she said about it being an experiment and just like any experiment results should be assessed.

This also goes with bw in the bc. We should weigh the results of our participation of the bc. Helping bm go to college with the Negro College Fun (cause you know we the main ones contributing) or any other organization, raising sons with no dads (especially since we are expected to teach boys to become great men), girls only learning or not learning about how men and women relate to each other, the church etc.

Something else that’s key is we should look at the protection or lack there of. Who comes and protects bw when they being harassed by bm (Dunbar) and who comes when bw are being harassed by wm (Imus) ww (Dr. Laura) or other non-bm-bw. Then weigh that with who comes to bm when they are harassed by other bm and especially when they are harassed by wm or even ww also other non-bw. Gates anyone?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1021293/How-mothers-fanatical-feminist-views-tore-apart-daughter-The-Color-Purple-author.html

DGMW I love Alice Walker, but sometimes it’s good to hear from the children.

GoldenAh: The 1960′s gave us decades of unintended consequences. Just like when politicians write laws to effect one positive change, it causes lots and lots of other changes that may be detrimental.

It’s a well written article. Although now she should hang up writing publicly about the feud with her mother. She may have to realize that her mother raised her the best way she could. Even if she sucked at it. I don’t think she did too bad. Rebecca is extremely bright, self-confident, assertive, and I almost envy her childhood freedoms. I was very sheltered compared to her – suffocatingly so.

You raised some excellent points about protection and its lack-thereof for BW / BG. Khadija and Gina have mentioned that lack of protection aspect a number of times.

Maybe when I’m ready I’ll try and put something together about that, because it cannot be said enough.
CM_Writer on Twitter
September 12th, 2010 @ 7:28 AM

GoldenAh

See, that’s where I think you may be a bit mistaken. At this point white society IS following us. At this point approximately 50% of white children are being raised/born to single parent homes.

I understand your perspective. It seems you come from a “black women are the world’s mule” p.o.v. and thusly the only way black women can stop being victims is to abandon black men who are apparently (in your view) the world’s whip? A good brother friend of mine said this to me, “The only way a woman can be a mule is if she gets down on all fours and allows someone to put a saddle on her.” Choices.

This is something you and I will agree to disagree on. Blame never solves anything. Ever. I don’t care how many black women choose to date out or marry out or label black men this or that, you cannot run from what is truth.

Any time you act out of hate or fear, you lose. I say people should choose to love whomever they choose to love, but do not do so out of hating someone else. Or blaming someone else.

Who raises those black men who you find worthy of disdain, since other black men are absent? Black Women. So absence of an irresponsible father and presence of an incompetent mother is what turns these certain black males into irresponsible and incompetent people. TWO FOLD.

But I tell you this, I honestly could care less what the majority group is doing or not doing. When we (black people) are suffering from the proverbial flu. My purpose in life has been to help whomever (black, white, purple) finds themselves in turmoil. I do not see evil in people. I see potential for good.

I’m not here to change your mind. Just to offer my own perspective. It is good to have varying viewpoints. And I appreciate your response.

GoldenAh: You have me exactly right on one thing: I’m not a black male protectionist, black male identified, or a “Sista Soldier”. The only brothers I have are my two siblings. I don’t claim strangers.

This frequent desire among some black women to protect black males like they are children and free from criticism is part of what makes them perform so poorly from jump street. Their egos may be big, soft, fragile, and delicate, but regardless of that they are measured against OTHER MEN. We cannot protect them. It’s always been a bizarre idea and role for black women to adopt. It makes a number of us look militant, belligerent, and masculine.

Plus, rationalizing and pretending that whites will follow us into the gutter, making our dysfunction a viable norm, is folly. White people place value in marriage, even their gays are fighting for it. Black people are not.

I do not see black women as mules. Like you said, they have choices. Their choices can be to ignore people, especially those they inaccurately call “brothas”, and women who give them malicious and damaging “advice.” They should ignore anyone they feel isn’t helpful to their needs (even me). However, right now, their “brothas” are falling far short of the REAL MAN standard. When you do not grade black males on a sympathetic pity curve they come up short. Very short. That’s not being hateful. It’s just an observation.

As for blame, everyone already blames black women. Constantly. Contemptuously. Endlessly. Brutally. It’s an automatic response: if the “black community” is screwed up, she’s deemed the only person responsible. I know it stems from the false belief that black culture / society is matriarchal.

The best cure for black women is to raise their standards and choose REAL MEN. Unfortunately, it may be found in mostly non-black men. As you’ve said, it’s their choice to keep it moving, or stay and suffer the consequences.

Thanks for your feedback. Don’t hesitate to comment again. Cheers.
temple
September 12th, 2010 @ 12:01 PM

Today is Sunday. This post, GoldenAh, was my church & it is the most awesomely honest & greatest sermons I’ve ever sat through.

Amen

GoldenAh: Thank you, Temple. That is a wonderful compliment.
Valerie
September 12th, 2010 @ 12:12 PM

Real men come in all shapes and sizes and all races. Real men, you can depend on and look after their families. If black males are real men, why is there so much single parentages in the black communities.

GoldenAh: That’s all I’m asking….
Oshun/Aphrodite
September 12th, 2010 @ 3:30 PM

Rainbeaux – I appreciate you for being so honest and kind to share your experience. I am sending you a a ton of virtual hugs. I wish you all the comfort, happiness, and joy til overflow.

I am feeling some type of way about this comment:

“A good brother friend of mine said this to me, “The only way a woman can be a mule is if she gets down on all fours and allows someone to put a saddle on her.” Choices.”

Men can’t seem to check the male privilege at the door. Just like a woman can’t raise a man….men don’t know nothing about being a woman, the process of becoming a woman, and are wholly non-sympathetic…

I wish it were that simple … just a choice, but considering all the crazymaking socialization I received at the hand of the BC – I beg to differ.

GoldenAh: What’s disturbing is that she is very proud to be friends with a guy who reasons in that fashion. My feminine sensitivities couldn’t be in lock-step with such a callous individual. I can only imagine what they might think of black female rape victims. Then again, it’s like you said the BC seems to have this mindset. SMH.

I notice she’s only concerned about blame when it’s pointed at black males, other than that she’s quite comfortable blaming black women for everything.

Great observations Oshun/Aphrodite!
Honi
September 12th, 2010 @ 4:21 PM

Oshun/Aphrodite –

Preach!

I agree with you completely.

After the cult-like indoctrination I had about black men when I was growing up, I really needed to go back to the factory for re-grooving.

You can’t tell me that very many black women escape that type of mind training.
Oshun/Aphrodite
September 12th, 2010 @ 9:34 PM

@Honi

You and me both. There are layers and I keep peeling and peeling….

Omg Goldenah!

I would have sworn I was talking to man! I didn’t click her profile link. I just assumed with the way her comments were written that this was some deranged nosy negro male doing his bit to distract/detract…keep his foot on the neck of BW…

That’s why I ignored all that other blah blah blah about blame ……

I didn’t know this was a woman until you said “her”!

With friends like that, who needs enemies, eh?

GoldenAh: Oh, you weren’t alone in thinking that.

That’s why I was so happy to see her comments, and talked about how some black women are so incredibly black male-identified. She’s not even aware of having this thought pattern. It’s automatic for her. And we know a lot black women think this way.

Eye opening, yes?
Queen
September 13th, 2010 @ 2:38 AM

@ GoldnenAh, I Love what you said about only having two brothers and not claiming strangers. I Have two brothers too and share your sentiment on that.

As for the “sistah” who was saying women choosing to be mules. What I find amazing is when we stand up and “choose” not to be mule and start making wise quality choices about the men we allow into our company, we get speeches like hers. That because we choose not to be mules that automatically means we are abandoning black men. What we are doing is abandoning the saddle that BM are trying to put on us and we have volunteered to carry because we realized we do deserve better. I am sure she was sincere in what she was saying , but it is still wrong and it comes off like we need to stay loyal to the BM because he is a BM for the sake of the BC, but what I see oh too many times is the BC has failed the BW and has been all to happy to let her volunteer to carry the burdens and the minute she says no more, she is a traitor to her race, sell out and call other foolish names when the truth really is that she has closed the kitchen and refuses to give any more free lunches to free loaders! Sorry, I took the red pill, I have left the matrix!

GoldenAh: I can tell she means well. She knows something is wrong, but cannot bring herself to look at black males and articulate the kind of higher standards they need to be held to.

Like you said, once WE black women start raising our standards, the conversation changes and suddenly we’re the ones “abandoning” the BC. Folks know that most of the eligible black men left already. Well, we’re doing our part and seeking REAL MEN, which will be fulfilling the goal that the cynical like to toss at us all the time to help “fix” the BC.

You know, haystack searching for the responsible “brothas” that are outnumbered in some cities 7-1. The REAL MAN search will leave out many “brothas”, since they are a much smaller demographic group than us. I’m not sure why that’s an issue. Are we supposed to stand around and wring our hands? Continue to practice man sharing and disease spreading? Continue to be lured into substandard, emotionally and psychically damaging “relationships”?

When people refuse to reach the logical conclusion that we are entitled to our own EMANCIPATION PROCLAMATION, we can hang up the conversation. Folks are prioritizing the needs of the “black community” (a.k.a black males) over those of black women.

Not anymore. We’re not having it.

Excellent points Queens!
Queen
September 13th, 2010 @ 2:40 AM

Blind Loyalty of the BW to the BM and the BC is pure B.S.!!!!!
Likewaterforchocolat
September 13th, 2010 @ 9:51 AM

I do realize that one of the many reasons that I am still single is in the past by dating black men, I always expected the best from whomever it was. I always had high expectations and bm I dated consistently fell short. I was always accused of being to “hard on” men (in these instances, it was always bm) by both bm and bw. It was not my standards that were too high, it was that bm consistently could not meet them. Even the ones who considered themselves quality because no one told them any different. Well, I would tell them. Even when I was in my early twenties, I never believed in grading on the bm-curve. If I had continued only dating bm, this would have been the trap that I would have fallen into in order to date at all.

All men have to pass the same litmus test. Doing this does nobody a bit of good. Not you or the man involved. Celebrate mediocrity why don’t we? I remembered rejecting this one bm trying to date me incessantly when I was about 22 years old. He would always ask why I was being too hard on him and rejecting him because of his shortcomings. You know, he had a whole lotta aint-gots (aint got a car, aint got his own place, aint got a steady paycheck). I simply told him this: “It builds character! Look dude, just because you are a character doesn’t mean that you have character.”

He needed to learn that in order to be worthy of such a quality woman as myself, he also needed to be a quality man. How else will any man pursuing us learn this, if we do not tell them? We have been told so many times that we need to “work with a brother.” If I’m not struggling on my own, what does it profit me to get with some guy and struggle? wm wear the ability to provide like a badge of honor. On dating sites one of the first things wm may mention is the fact that they are “well-established.”

As for bm, even if they are, not so much, because of all the things they give their money to, the last person is a bw. Because expecting security makes us gold diggers. To wm a woman expecting security is just that, a woman expecting security.

I suppose that a lot of us have our view of what a real man is and apparently mine is right on par with yours, Golden. Because for evey 50 bm, I see there are maybe 2 I consider to be real men.

GoldenAh: When we know better, we do better. Fantastic (and so so true) commentary, Likewaterforchocolat!
Queen
September 13th, 2010 @ 3:18 PM

@ Likewateforchoclat BW who expect the BM to be financially responsible that BM are quick to call “Gold-diggers”

I think they do it as a mind job to keep an unaware BW second-guessing herself and wasting her time defending the fact that she is “not like that” becasue when it comes to a woman they really want, BM will spend their last dime weather they are broke or not to have her or be with her. It is a mind game they play. And another dirtly little side of this mind game many of them play is that (if the woman allows it) they will use a woman they don’t really want for sex, support, etc. singing the mantra “I a’int got it”, “give a brotha a chance”, “you gold diggn’” and all the while they are saving up their money and resources for the woman they REALLY want and when the time is ripe, they will dump her and spend their money freely on the one they want without reservation.

The women that are being used many times get blindsided many times because these “brothas” lead them on with flattery and lies to keep what they want freely flowing. That is why I am glad for blogs like this becasue it encourages BW to be smart about love and commitment and to not be blindsided by the lies and guilted into staying loyal to the BM when many BM do not reciprocate yet feel entitled to blind loyalty without question. They use the “BW are too demanding or being too hard on us brothas.” to get us to compromise so they don’t have to try so hard or come correct and to me that is laziness on their part.

Most BW are not unreasonable in their expectations in fact they sell themselves short more times than not. We are worth so much more! Those dudes who say we “expect too much” I would challenge them to go to a Ferrari Dealeship with 20 dollars wanting a $300,000 car and tell the dealer to “work with a brotha” or accuse the dealer of “being to hard on them” because the dealer is demanding he pay him what the car is truly worth!

GoldenAh: Fantastic analogy Queen.
rainebeaux
September 13th, 2010 @ 3:33 PM

Thanks, ladies, for the well wishes and hugs. Just focused on self and looking to steer BW/BG on the right path…Oh, and Oshun/Aphrodite? I noticed that too; at this point I no longer try to refute, debate, keep track of or respond to any of that malarkey…too many contradictions to unpack, not enough dirt or cork to fill in the holes. this is indeed what it’s come to: so many damn bm-identified BW walking around–i was one of them, believe it or not; just not to this extent–you gotta peel an extra layer back and/or click for ID (“oh, her…I stand corrected…just…whoa.” SMDH).

To wit, I’m over these Tragic Negroids and I’m DONE sacrificing my racial/ethnic self-respect (not to mention my overall health) for ppl/places/ideologies that want me/us dead last or JUST PLAIN DEAD. Which brings me to the following: BM (I won’t even bother with qualifiers at this point; just check any/all that apply) and their enablers/protectionists ARE irrelevant/extinct as far as I’m concerned, much like the BC itself: bad investment(s) all around [I have the receipts to prove it! Help a brotha out, my butt! *this doesn't even factor in the indoctrination...] *shrug*. if anyone’s interested, HELL YEAH I’m a sellout (and an unrepentant one to boot) since I wanna live, thrive and all. Struggling clogs my pores, man…

GoldenAh: I can see how a BM-identified BW could be coming from a place of sympathy and misguided racial loyalty. However, at some point a BW has to figure out, like you have, how damaging this thought process is.

Tragic Negroids is hilarious. Yeah, the pity bank account is empty. No more blank checks.
Southland Diva
September 13th, 2010 @ 4:07 PM

Rainbeaux, I realize time is a precious commodity for you, but it would be great if you started your own blog (forgive me if you already have one). Many young women would benefit from your experience and your evolution! Stay positive and keep moving forward.

likewaterforchocolat, I am so there with you!!! I have learned it is pointless to reduce or negotiate your standards (mind you I don’t mean the ‘must be six feet’ and ‘drop-dead handsome’ kind). If you do, some men will push you to drop them further and/or manipulate you into an untenable situation. It’s as if they are punishing you for being better educated, more gainfully employed, or for having the audacity to believe you are worthy of being loved and protected.

It is quite the conundrum on the face of it: having the bc tell bw to accept less, while blaming bw for all the ills in the bc when some bw take their advice.

More bw are beginning to realize the Jedi mind trick being played on them. Along with realization comes the desire to learn new ways of thinking, perceiving and being. Gaining information for BWE blogs is a good first step.

Peace

GoldenAh: And there you have it, one of the reasons for the high OOW rate and why BW are struggling: damned if you have high standards, damned if you lower them.

Ditto on the blog Rainbeaux!
Frank M.
September 13th, 2010 @ 6:05 PM

Queen – I would challenge them to go to a Ferrari Dealeship with 20 dollars wanting a $300,000 car and tell the dealer to “work with a brotha”

LOL Great analogy.
Likewaterforchocolat
September 14th, 2010 @ 9:15 AM

@ Queen, you are right on target with bw thinking that they must do all that they can to prove that they are not “like that” or gold diggers. The big thing now is for women to wine and dine men, just to prove their “independence” and compete for their affections. One bw I know bought a rt plane ticket and paid all expenses (every dinner etc.) for one of the purple unicorn good bm to “visit” her (and no, they are not even dating). This shows you how this mindscrew has worked for a lot of bw.

We have to go even further to prove our loyalty to bm with a certain amount of hoop-jumping. Well, I aint a show monkey and I don’t jump through hoops. And even well-established bm are taking advantage of this idealogy mostly by them in order to break you. Several years ago, the thought of this for real men would have been emasculating. Now, it is being played up to portray them as studs. People felt that I was being too picky because I stopped dating men who did not have a college degree.

The BC and (M)essence magazines will try to tell you that bw who have MBA and law degrees really can find happiness with that ex-con/garbage man/janitor/40-year-old aspiring rapper by deciding to be flexible on things that we really shouldn’t be flexible on. I am of the belief that an education does not make the person, but I am not about to apologize for my accomplishments or downplay my acheivements because a man’s ego is sensitive (which is the case with bm, they are just too insecure and sensitive about shortcomings that they have the power to change, but once again bw are to blame for being too successful and accused leaving bm choking on our dust as they lose ground in the race of life ).

Yes, bm are seeing us as the competition. I had to let one guy know that I signed up for a relationship, but I did not sign up the “Amazing Race”. I do not need for the person that I am looking to let down my guard around to have disdain for my achievements or trying to compete with me. I am also not willing to lower myself into the gutter just to stay loyal to a bm or any man for that matter.

GoldenAh: But, but, but the purple unicorn good bm are out there!!! All we gotta do is dig much much much much deeper into that haystack or hole in the ground! It’s because we all love dem thugs (with swagger no less!) that we keep bypassing all these good “brothas”. LOL.

Awesome feedback ladies.
Bellydancer
September 14th, 2010 @ 1:32 PM

I once dated a bm who lived in LA and he told me that often when black men are trying to get into music or acting, bw will often try to support these bm in hopes that once they make it the men will not forget them and help them out. I was like GTFOH! are these women that desparate and they were not even dating the men just friends or casual acquaintances.
Real men do not act like this if you are going to enter the entertainment industry be prepared to be poor for a little while.
These men would often use the money to take non bw on trips, help them with their bills, get their hair done while bw are walking around keeping it down for the bm.
Chile please……

GoldenAh: Funny you should say that, I was reading a hair board where a very young girl was putting up with the antics of an older guy who claimed he was in the music business. Apparently, that’s the new hustle next to being a future basketball / footballer. It’s possible they might make it big.

However, if they had any self-respect, or were real men, they wouldn’t be leeching off of any woman. They need to pay their dues like everyone else in the entertainment industry – by working.

By the way, Bellydancer, thanks for that email. The feedback gives me ideas for my next post(s).
Queen
September 16th, 2010 @ 12:13 AM

@ Bellydancer, that is not just the broke BM; there is a guy I know who is a professional model, he has money ,he lives in a $250,000 house, but because of his looks (6’4, caramel skin, muscles, tatoos, dreadlocks down his back, very attractive)women chase him down and he has women doing whatever he wants. He will post on his FB page he wants a cetain thing for his birthday or for whatever and 100 women will go our there and buy it for him. He pulled that on one of my friends (asking her to pick him up something to eat) when she went to meet him for business (he is a photographer), she put him in check. They became friends belive it or not and a year later he wanted her to come to his hotel when he was in town for his birthday. Knowing what he wanted, she refused. He got angry and cut her off. No skin off her nose but she later told me that he is so used to getting what he wants out of women then discarding of them once he got what he wanted and when he came accross one who would not let herself be used by him, he got angry. Another manifestation of men but especially BM who start calling you “difficult”, “Stuck Up”, etc once they realize you won’t let them use you. which is nothing more than another mind job to see if you will compromise to once again prove you are “down” and “Not like that”.
Bellydancer
September 16th, 2010 @ 9:59 AM

Golden I just sent you another one.
Thanks

Queen, damn that dude was just too trifling for words but some of these young men today are spoiled beyond belief anyway and put sexual potency along with it and you can get some crazy results (lol)
Queen
September 16th, 2010 @ 3:10 PM

Bellydancer, I think ALOT of these men are spoiled and I think alot of women are to blame for the spoiling and not holding them to a standard of accountability. They let these men “use” them and it sets a “industy standard” and they then expect every woman they come accross to give them the same “benefits package” and when they don’t get it they act up like the dude my friend was dealing with. Makes you kind of wonder is high sexual potency worth a broken heart and humiliation?
Anonymous
September 17th, 2010 @ 6:48 AM

Hi Goldenah

you have raised a critical debate here about the dimensions of manhood. there are clearly two basic dimensions, and one is physical manhood, the other is the ability of said men to perform against manhood standards as specified within his cultural context eg get wealth, provided and protect his family etc.

bm have been given a pass on the dimension of manhood that involves ability and capacity to produce and provide which i believe is the ‘distinguishing’ dimension of manhood because lets face it, all men have male parts and physical characteristics (at leat 95% of men), and these are more or less fixed, so they can distinguish themselves along the dimensions that can appreciate or diminish depending on their efforts.

i also want to add another thing that tend s to be overlooked. it is actually a privildge to have ones ‘genes’, perpetuated. This is a biggy which bw are being intentionally confused and dupped about so they can unwittingly carry the genes of unworthy men into the future!

the whole race of life is about self perpetuation through offspring as in ‘survival of the fitest’. if a living being was defective or couldnt contend/compete, they often lost the race for survival through being denied the opportunity to have offspring. Wow.

Bw need to take a minute to runimate on that!

women had the ‘casting vote’ of which male she would fascilitate in the survival race. the womb of women is sacred and central to the race of life. women often decided that unworthy men (who could not compete not necessarily with brawn but by outthinking others, or provide), didnt get that special privilege to have their genes taken into the future.

contrast it with what we have today, where the most unworthy of men (as shown through their attitude to work, their attitude to the family and their offspring etc etc), are allowed to have a stake in the future by having as many children and from as many women as possible.

isnt that amazing, bw are using their wombs to continue the genes of unworthy men, who should by their actions have been disqualified from the privilege of this. there are places and people who will bankrupt themselves for the opportunity to have children and the best isnt good enough when they do get the privilege to have any!

GoldenAh: Well, hello! So good to hear from you!

You’ve nailed why so much of the so-called “black community” is the mess it is today. If the entire Western World had to rely on some of these people and their mentality to grow food, provide jobs, create and build useful inventions, we’d all be starving, living in utter chaos and havoc.

Black women are bending too far over backward to give useless males a chance. They are suffering for it.

I’m still reeling over Queen’s tale about the big, pretty, tattooed, long-haired, useless black male who has arranged his life to have all sorts of women cater to him. A wise woman should realize one cannot be friends with such an immoral debased person. At some point they will be tossed on the used and abused pile.

Excellent observations! Thank you for your input.
goldenah
September 17th, 2010 @ 9:56 AM

Shortage of Single Ladies Drives Men to Commit

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/shortageofsingleladiesdrivesmentocommit/print

There are not enough REAL MEN where black women are, they need to move….
BWMM
September 18th, 2010 @ 6:23 PM

The BC and (M)essence magazines will try to tell you that bw who have MBA and law degrees really can find happiness with that ex-con/garbage man/janitor/40-year-old aspiring rapper by deciding to be flexible on things that we really shouldn’t be flexible on. I am of the belief that an education does not make the person, but I am not about to apologize for my accomplishments or downplay my acheivements because a man’s ego is sensitive (which is the case with bm, they are just too insecure and sensitive about shortcomings that they have the power to change, but once again bw are to blame for being too successful and accused leaving bm choking on our dust as they lose ground in the race of life ).

Thank you! I didn’t realize the disdain that bm had for educated black women/girls until I happened upon a craigslist discussion. Even ww where like WTH is wrong with you men. They still didn’t get they they were not impressing any of the women on the board. They were hurting their image.

Now I am of the belief that education comes in all forms from uncolleging/schooling etc. (life of hard knocks or not) to higher ed (ivy, non-ivy)but these men don’t even try. Okay so college isn’t for you (that’s the case with many people) That doesn’t mean give up and do nothing and hate the ones who do something with their lives. Why not use self-education or other alternatives like certifications, on the job training. There is a book by Charles D. Hayes on how to train yourself. There is also a good book called The Uncollege Alternative. Hell there is a whole book on certifications and apprenticeships. Why not teach themselves? There are many people that I know that never went to school (especially the older generation as my aunt and her other siblings had to quit school to take care of my great grandmother.) Those men and women were the most intelligent people I know. My aunt eventually went back to get her high school education in her 60′s. She also worked in different environments. Even worked for a woman who would hold galas etc. where she met wealthy and famous people. Hell I’ve met homeless people that know more than I do. Not only did they read for the sake of reading to keep their minds active, but they read about skills for jobs and even took job skills workshops/classes etc.

GoldenAh: There are many well paying positions that do not require a college degree. Like you said the alternatives are there. If a person is ambitious they can train themselves (choosing a hobby) to find another way of earning income. It is old school to have many talents and be able to make money with it.

I plan on exploring many other fields. It’s a fun thing to do and in today’s economy – it’s required.
DiosaNegra
September 23rd, 2010 @ 9:58 AM

Queen’s tome regarding the big, pretty, tattooed, long-haired, useless black male who has arranged his life to have all sorts of women cater to him….blew my mind completely!

I personally know a woman who is SURROUNDED by these types…and, I’ve been in their company (socially @ happy hours) prior…

She was enamoured of at least two of these BM….and, subsequently wound up with her heart broken. I tried to warn her…but she’s stuck on these types of BM….and WM have approached her asking for dates/getting to know her…but she doesn’t even “clock” them…

@ BWMM: Yes, the disdain that BM have for an educated woman….also BLOWS MY MIND!!! I remember having my GRANDFATHER tell me (at 14 y/o) not to get “too smart” because BM don’t like that…. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA….I said, “Excuse me, Pop-Pop, I’m gonna go back to reading “Hamlet”….and I did….
rita
November 20th, 2010 @ 2:45 AM

@DiosaNegra –

“She was enamoured of at least two of these BM….and, subsequently wound up with her heart broken. I tried to warn her…but she’s stuck on these types of BM….and WM have approached her asking for dates/getting to know her…but she doesn’t even “clock” them…”

If you are also meeting these latter gentlemen, by all means introduce yourself … and as you’re meeting them, I would certainly appreciate an introduction as well.