No Wedding No Womb

44 Responses to “No Wedding No Womb”

1. DiosaNegra
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 12:14 PM

   Ah…yes. I’m a firm believer in this (though I don’t necessarily ID as “Christian”)….this is the main reason I didn’t have kids…I was the child of a single mom….who was also the child of a single mom. I decided EARLY on (around 12 or so) NOT to follow in their footsteps. I love my Mom and Grams dearly….but, I chose a different path. More young women (and a few not so young) need to PAY ATTENTION.

2. Bellydancer
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 1:29 PM

   Golden I just sent you 2 emails that deal with this syndrome affecting our community.

   audio only
   http://survivingdating.com/black-men-blame-black-women-for-pregnancies

   read only
   http://survivingdating.com/dont-be-dumb-by-falling-for-the-baby-momma-okey-doke

3. Bellydancer
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 1:40 PM

   A study was done on birth control sabotage and how that affects oow births.

   Domestic Violence and Birth Control Sabotage:
   A Report from the Teen Parent Project
   Executive Summary

   http://www.impactresearch.org/documents/birthcontrolexecutive.pdf

   entire report available at http://www.impactresearch.org

   GoldenAh: I believe that a lot of teen pregnancies are a manifestation of rape and abuse, not a young girl in “love” with some older guy.

   Thanks for the information, Bellydancer.

4. Bellydancer
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 3:49 PM

   No problem I am on fire today because my youngest sister just had her first baby monday and already she is getting on everyone’s nerves with request to do stuff and everytime you ask where the baby daddy at she starts talking about that’s my business. So I got some of these silly bitches in my family too I just look at her and smh, she only had this baby for attention and the father already has 2 children and has another one on the way next month. SMDH
   I’m gonna start a movement called SYPU (Sew Yo Pu**y Up) cuz some of them need it

5. Yellowmoon
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 4:14 PM

   Bellydancer -

   I laughed so hard when I read the last sentence of your post that I almost threw up. My stomach still hurts.

6. Frank M.
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 5:01 PM

   Is this movement promoting abstinence? OR is it simply telling women not to have children out of wedlock. I’m confused…

   GoldenAh: I should be able to clarify that, shouldn’t I?

   From what I’ve gathered, it’s intended towards young girls / women and young men to think about the consequences of having children without the benefit of marriage. I don’t know if it’s about abstinence, since that’s nearly an impossible task today. Perhaps it’s more about thinking of having children in marriage as opposed to having it outside of marriage.

   I don’t know how black people could make the cultural shift back towards marriage. I suppose this is a start….

   I hope I helped shed some light on the topic.

7. BWMM
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 8:37 PM

   I wish I hadn’t missed the mark to sign up, but I love the idea of forgoing the leaders and and having the community do for themselves. Al and the others sure haven’t done anything and gov programs make it worse, because they don’t understand the needs of the people. The fed gov is too big to do something like that. It’s going to have to be the local community.

   GoldenAh: I think you still can. I almost said, “No.” Because I was wondering what I’d say. I’ve known a few girls / women who’ve made the decision to have children alone or were impressionable kids. There are so many factors. I bet 100 bloggers is only touching the tip of the iceberg.

   I googled the expression No Wedding No Womb. Amazing to see the number of hits. I give Christelyn her props. She could school folks on true PR.

   Well, Pres Obama said we are the change we’re looking for. So we are our own leaders.

   The year is almost over. We gotta hit some milestones. Right?

8. Queen
   September 22nd, 2010 @ 11:37 PM

   @ Yellowmoon, I was on the floor right there by you laughing at Bellydancers suggested new movement.

9. Bellydancer
   September 23rd, 2010 @ 7:25 AM

   Queen and Yellowmoon
   It’s gonna have a theme song and everything ya’ll.

   Sample Lyrics
   Girl I tried to tell you he wasn’t nothing
   but you had to go and try to make him into something
   and now he’s got you where he wants you trapped at home with him
   while he’s out there chasing every becky, li and kim
   oh whats a girl to do………I’ll tell you what to do
   Sew Yo Pu**y Up
   girl you know it works
   SYPU oh it don’t even hurt

   LOL

10. DiosaNegra
    September 23rd, 2010 @ 8:37 AM

    Queen & Bellydancer:

    Y’all just ain’t right….
    (but, you really ARE!!!!)

    LOL

11. goldenah
    September 23rd, 2010 @ 9:04 AM

    Bellydancer, you are onto something.

    You get a nice beat / hook, and I bet the song would get incredible airplay. Maybe the message might sink in, since young people live and breath popular music and videos.

    The first time I ever heard the word “baby daddy” and “baby momma” was in some rap song.

12. Bellydancer
    September 23rd, 2010 @ 9:25 AM

    Thanks Golden ya’ll are cracking me up.

13. Oshun/Aphrodite
    September 23rd, 2010 @ 3:36 PM

    “she is getting on everyone’s nerves with request to do stuff and everytime you ask where the baby daddy at she starts talking about that’s my business.”

    Bellydancer, that’s manipulative and low down as [insert cuss word here]! Your sister really think she entitled. I am amazed that she has such loyalty to a guy who is treating her like crap, but is quick to treat the people who are feeding her (you guys) um…like crap.

    She would remember the next time…

14. BWMM
    September 23rd, 2010 @ 5:35 PM

    The first time I ever heard the word “baby daddy” and “baby momma” was in some rap song.

    When I first heard baby momma or baby daddy it meant something completely different. Baby momma and baby daddy was used in association with young girls/boys teens or young adults having children at an early age (non married so I can see how the meaning went in another direction)

15. Frank M.
    September 24th, 2010 @ 12:31 PM

    All jokes aside, prescribing abstinence or some “sypu” (lol) campaign is never going to work. Trying to stop young people from having sex is like trying to stop the sun from shining. It’s just not gonna happen.

    No matter how religious they are, no matter how well you explain the consequences, no matter how much we scare them or how intelligent they are, it will NEVER stop them from doing it. SEX is one of the few things in this world that is UNDEFEATED. Maybe you can delay it from happening for a few years, but it’s still going to happen.

    So the only solution is to teach them how to be safe about it. I was taught at a very young age, and I managed to have no children/no close calls/no accidents for over 15 years.

    I use condoms. EVERY. TIME. If I get involved in a committed relationship, we get tested and she goes on birth control long BEFORE the condom comes off. This is not rocket science here.

    Children should not be “accidents”. If people are educated and have access to condoms/birth control, then there is just no excuse for it IMO.

    GoldenAh: Couldn’t agree more, but the “black community” is such a mess. Beyond disastrous. I don’t know if things can be fixed. However, if even a few minds are changed….

    I can only hope.

16. Anonymous
    September 24th, 2010 @ 1:35 PM

    I use condoms. EVERY. TIME. If I get involved in a committed relationship, we get tested and she goes on birth control long BEFORE the condom comes off. This is not rocket science here.

    But even with education many black women are expected to have children and hold down the fort. As in keep the race going crap. My mom told me about sex and my period when I was around 7 or 8 years old. She made it a point to talk about no sex or safe sex. Hell watching not just my mom, but that of my aunts, cousins and other women who are single moms I knew I didn’t want to go that route. Hell after baby sitting for one of my moms friends (hubby left) I baby stat her kids for at least 8-12 hours. That gave me enough learning to realize yes I love kids. I learned to change diapers on a real baby. I learned to have patience with kids etc., but I also learned that at 14 or 15 years old I was not ready for having children. I think if more teens had this experience then they would think twice about that. But since many black girls are given you are a sellout, selfish ish; they think it’s normal.

    GoldenAh: I used to co-babysit (with a friend), and nothing cures that desire for a baby faster. I think a lot these teens never got the chance to be held responsible for a 2 year old all day.

    Thanks for the input.

    

17. Bellydancer
    September 24th, 2010 @ 2:37 PM

    I am the oldest of 6 and I used to have to babysit a lot so that helped define my choice to be childless.
    Something needs to be done about the oow births even if people desire sex they are not going about it in the right way and causing more problems for themselves and others who have to jump in and help when these kids are born so saying you can’t stop sex is taking the easy way out however if they stopped welfare, food stamps and housing then they will at least pay attention, no more handouts if you have babies and you are poor stop having them if you are poor plain and simple!

    GoldenAh: Girl, you just stepped on the third rail of “progressive / feminist” politics: challenging a woman’s right to have as many babies as she wants without worrying about feeding, clothing, housing, and properly raising them. Once she has them the rest of us OWE her our money and endless resources, otherwise the “children will suffer” and it “takes a village to raise a child.”

    I feel like the babies are being held hostage, because their “parents” don’t want to do right by them.

18. lostkitty
    September 24th, 2010 @ 4:30 PM

    I use condoms. EVERY. TIME. If I get involved in a committed relationship, we get tested and she goes on birth control long BEFORE the condom comes off. This is not rocket science here.

    Frank M:

    How do you define “committed relationship”?

    Are you willing to risk impregnating a woman to whom you are not married?

    What would you do in such a situation?

    I don’t think any responsible man should have unprotected sex with a woman to whom he is not married or whom he does not want to impregnate. A “committed relationship” is not the same as marriage and female birth control is not fail-safe. In the event of an unwanted pregnancy, unless you marry her or she chooses to abort, she will become a baby-momma.

19. Frank M.
    September 24th, 2010 @ 10:07 PM

    @lostkitty: You’re reaching.

    Men like ME are NOT the irresponsible ones contributing to this epidemic that the NWNW campaign is trying to curtail.

    Trying to use some minuscule chance that my monogamous relationship with a woman already on birth control would result in a child as a comparison to an entire culture of men sleeping with multiple partners with no protection is pretty far-fetched.

    Give your abstinence lecture to someone who isn’t a responsible adult already; who doesn’t have a career and two homes. IF and when a child happens in MY life, it would be WELL taken care of.

    It wouldn’t be wondering who dad was, it wouldn’t be living on welfare in a crime-ridden neighborhood, it wouldn’t have to share Daddy’s time with the other kids from different mothers, it wouldn’t have to go to Grandma’s to live, and it wouldn’t have to talk to Dad through glass on a 30 minute visit to jail.

    Do I look “responsible” in comparison yet?

    Baby-momma, please…

20. lostkitty
    September 24th, 2010 @ 11:32 PM

    I was not giving an abstinence lecture. I was talking about responsibility with regard to using a condom to make sure that the man is doing his part to prevent an unwanted pregnancy if he is engaging in premarital sex.

    And a man does not have to have children with multiple women to make a woman a baby-mama or become a baby-daddy. Any woman who has a child by a man to whom she is not married is a baby-mama, no matter how committed he is to the relationship.

    My question is, would you marry the woman?

    No need to get angry at me. I don’t doubt that, as a responsible man, you would care for your child financially and be an involved father.

    Over the years I have known several men (blacks and white) who had children and were living with women in “committed” long-term relationships, but refused to marry the woman.

    Right now I have a friend who has been with a man for 15 years(since her early 20s) and they have children together. She and the children are well provided for, and he is a good companion and father, but he won’t marry her. No matter how committed he is to her, she is still his baby-mama. She wants a legal marriage, not just a committed relationship.

    Get angry all you want, but a monogamous, committed relationship is not equivalent to a monogamous marriage. NWNW is about raising children in stable, marital relationships, isn’t it?

21. Frank M.
    September 25th, 2010 @ 12:52 AM

    “My question is, would you marry the woman?”

    Yes.

    We good now?

    That’s such an important point for you, but it wouldn’t change much for me. I don’t think that your friends situation is a bad one. At the end of the day, marriage is a ceremony, a piece of paper, and a tax break. If I was committed before, I wouldn’t be that much different after.

22. goldenah
    September 25th, 2010 @ 8:57 AM

    Oh, Frank. Le sigh.

    I do like and appreciate your bluntness. Every woman should have this kind of conversation with a man, if they’ve been seeing each other for a period of time (before the sex).
    __

    Open questions to the men out there: Does marriage lack value to you? Is it about the money, property and asset sharing? Or do you figure since you’re getting everything you want, what’s the point of the ceremony? Just asking. Not accusing. I’m curious.

    I have to admit – the men in my family are almost all married. If they divorce, they get married again. They’re happy to find a good woman to build a life with. So I find guys who are adverse to it…. I dunno. I’m baffled by it. I couldn’t imagine my life without my Mother and Father. They’re still married (for a very very long time), and they live a couple of miles from me.

    So help me (and the other ladies) understand what’s going on.

    Cheers.

23. caridad
    September 25th, 2010 @ 10:29 AM

    @ Frank M.
    I Do like hearing your responses, it gives me much to think about. I do agree that abstinence is not the answer, teaching a bunch of hormonal teenagers and even early twenty kids on keeping their legs close is wishful thinking at best.

    @ Bellydancer
    I don’t think getting rid of welfare, food stamps etc. is going to happen because this is not a black only social service. A lot of Whites (since they are the majority)use these services, as well as other non-blacks. Try getting rid of these services and see what would happen because if blacks were the main ones using this, it would have been gone a long time ago.

    GoldenAh: Do you know that this government used to sterilize people if they were considered “imbeciles”? And that was based on a Supreme Court ruling? As we can see from their history, they like to reverse their rulings.

    Also, welfare eligibility rules do get modified and changed all the time – it’s not written in stone. Frankly, no social program, or court ruling, is written in stone.

    I don’t think we’re going to see people starving in the streets. No one would tolerate that. But let’s not assume that these programs will be plentiful, merciful, or generous.

24. Frank M.
    September 25th, 2010 @ 11:34 AM

    LOL You KNOW I’ll speak my mind.

    Let’s break down a few reasons men get married and then I’ll give you my take on it. Disclaimer: This is just my opinion. No offense intended towards any of the happily married folks out there.

    1) Fear of being alone/dying alone. Many men get married so that someone is “there” when they get home and they like the security of knowing a woman will be with them when they are old and grey. They are basically sacrificing some of their younger single years so that their older years won’t be lonely.

    My take: I don’t mind someone NOT being there when I get home. I enjoy being alone about 3-4 nights out of a week. As for getting older, I don’t think I will be lonely, and I believe women will still be available at any age. It’s a complete myth that older people don’t still date. My own grandmother was still dating well into her 70′s and seemed very happy.

    2) A woman to have sex with. Consistently.

    My take: Men who get married for this reason were not doing very well with women before they got married. They probably had long dry spells in between sexual encounters. This reason has no value to a man who attracts women consistently. Men who can’t or never learned how to do this are so desperate for sex that they marry literally the first woman who will agree to it. It’s borderline pathetic IMO, and a bad reason to get married.

    3) Wanting a woman who will never sleep with anyone else.

    My take: I don’t believe women are any more monogamous when married or unmarried, so that reason has little to no value to me. If a woman wants to remain monogamous during the relationship, great. But I’m not gonna marry her to try and make sure. That’s controlling. It’s that type of insecure behavior that leads to women cheating in the first place. It’s a possessive reason to get married that has little to do with love and everything to do with control.

    4) The female has made a declaration or ultimatum to end the relationship at a certain point if he doesn’t marry her. In this scenario, the man gets married to appease the females wishes or implied demands.

    My take: LOL. Let’s just say I don’t respond well to threats. She is free to leave in this scenario. The male should be the one to propose marriage, not the other way around.

    5) He gets married because it will make her happy. A happy woman is a happy man, right?

    My take: Making decisions for someone else’s happiness never works out well in the end. If he didn’t want to get married, but did anyway to see her happy, what kind of foundation is that? You end up sacrificing your own happiness for hers and this will lead to deep resentment.

    6) He got married because he LOVES her.

    My take: Fair enough, but I’ve been in love enough to know that love can fade and the honeymoon period of a relationship can blind good decision making. That lovey-dovey feeling alone is not enough for me to make a lifetime commitment to someone. I would need a few years together to really get to know her before I took that step. Each time I have taken my time and done that, something is revealed to me about her that ultimately ends the relationship. Hence why I am unmarried today. Men need to do their due diligence, just as women do. If they did this, the divorce rate would not be nearly as high as it is.

    7) He gets married for practical reasons and to ease financial burden. Along with tax and health insurance breaks, he will also live the lifestyle that two incomes (hopefully) can afford, share rent, share bills, etc.

    My take: Do I even have to state why this is a terrible reason? A man should be living the lifestyle he wants long before getting married.
    And unless you have a disability or medical condition, health insurance is not a viable reason to marry someone.

    8) He wants a stable environment to raise kids.

    My take: This is the first real valid reason on the list, and probably the only reason I support for men getting married.

    Link to more info: http://www.askmen.com/top_10/dating/top-10-reasons-not-to-get-married_10.html

    GoldenAh: I love this. {{virtual hugs}}

    I hope this helps women think about the kind of guys they’re with. Find out where his head is at long before the children show up.

25. Queen
    September 26th, 2010 @ 10:23 PM

    @ Goldenah yes they did have laws on the books that sterilzed people they deemed Imbeciles and they also used words like “Feebleminded” and “Unfit” and their main target? Black women. Marget Sanger was a racist and a eugenist and the eugenists of her day used the welfare system to “encourage” BW to get sterilized by threatening to cut them off if they did not get sterilized. They did sterilize white women but not at the rate of black women.

    I agree this movment will not stop people from having sex, but hopefully it will help BW to use their “right to chose” to chose marriage and family; Once we become adults our choices are ours. if we choose not to marry and to just have lovers and live-ins , fine, but bringing a child into this equation is unwise and harmful. Contrary to popular belief, children function better as adults when they have had a stable home life with two healthy parents to guide and teach them. Even if a child when they reach adulthood looks “fine” if one parent was not in their life it does not meant hey are. My brothers and I came from a divorced home. My mother did a good job raising us, but I have a brother who does not want to marry or have kids. Why? becasue he said he does not want the child to suffer if he and the mom break up. I admire the fact that he is not fathering kids, but I am said becasue this choice (which is his to make) is motivated by fear of what may or may not happen. Inside a 35 year old body is boy who cannot forget the day his father left and never came back.

    I Even look at Usher, Eve, and Tupac, they all spoke of the harm of not having their fathers in their lives and their parents together. These people are/were famous with wealth and yet at the end of the day they shared through rap or an interview how painful that part of their life is for them to deal with.

    GoldenAh: Queen, what would I do without you? Like I said, I love it when you lay out the historical facts. If you ever want to write a post, lemme know.

    

    (I’m too lazy to go into detail. I sorta hope people would look it up.)

    It’s important we talk about how laws were in the past and who they targeted, because I get this sense that people think laws don’t change. The government has been and always will be intrusive, whether it’s your money, education, and family. People who think their “reproductive freedom” is off-limits need to reconsider. And those who they think are their allies, well, they might be in for shock.

26. Queen
    September 26th, 2010 @ 10:28 PM

    P.S. My brother is a graphic designer and successful in his line of work as is my other brother, but inside this pain lives with him.

    GoldenAh: I know what you mean. I know that most of the posts for No Wedding No Womb (NWNW) were from women. I have to admit I don’t know if out of the 100 posts written, if the issue of the damage it causes for young black guys are addressed.

    I have watched over my lifetime the stark differences between boys who grew up with their father and those without. It’s as different as night and day. I don’t know how anyone doesn’t see this. I think with young boys it depends on his age when the divorce happens, and subsequently how involved the father is. Because if the father does walk away, it will hurt the boy for the rest of his life.

    Christelyn is looking for solutions, but I’m thinking that most people are going to look for more of the usual: funding from the gov’t in social programs and schools. That’s not going to happen – these items are being reduced, if not, eliminated.

    This is a cultural issue, which makes me think – where is our culture getting it’s direction from?

    Unless there are institutions for training people on how to find a good partner and raise children, this may fall by the wayside.

27. Amanda
    September 27th, 2010 @ 9:53 PM

    “Goldenah yes they did have laws on the books that sterilzed people they deemed Imbeciles and they also used words like “Feebleminded” and “Unfit” and their main target? Black women. Marget Sanger was a racist and a eugenist and the eugenists of her day used the welfare system to “encourage” BW to get sterilized by threatening to cut them off if they did not get sterilized. They did sterilize white women but not at the rate of black women.”

    Hate comes back on those it’s not intended for. It’s like when (can’t remember the man’s name) tried to use the caste system (and did) on the poor in the U. S. school system (check out John Taylor Gatto’s website) The man who actually brought a caste system style education did it because he had a genuine love to teach poor children and was. He thought this system would be good (children teaching children). This guy (the one who first incorporated it) used to teach the poor children in the village. He started a school. What the big wigs didn’t take a liking too is he discovered that he could teach children (or anyone for that mater) in around 21 days to a month. So the others kicked him out took over, and put the system into practice in a much more sinister way. Anyway it hurt only the poor at first, but then it started trickling up to the middle class and so on and now our school system is crap.

    You probably have to go to his site to get a better explanation. My probably sucks.lol

28. Amanda
    September 27th, 2010 @ 10:00 PM

    “Christelyn is looking for solutions, but I’m thinking that most people are going to look for more of the usual: funding from the gov’t in social programs and schools. That’s not going to happen – these items are being reduced, if not, eliminated.”

    Because too many want to see through rose colored glasses. I remember reading articles and even books where women were talking about their sons not needing their fathers. That they could raise them to be good men (these were WW) Let’s just say I don’t hear that much from WW that I did before. You still have some, but many are not looking to raise boys alone or girls etc.

    I remember a discussion where a woman was at her wits end and confused about her sons behavior. She had re-married the boy didn’t want his stepfather. The stepfather adopted him. They had a okay relationship later, but was also angry and becoming increasingly so as he became older. She kept talking about how his real father doesn’t care or even come to see him, but he is angry, upset etc. and she didn’t understand why her son couldn’t see that his stepfather was trying etc. I’m thinking duh. He wants his father! Now I know it can’t be helped, but to not get that is beyond me.

    GoldenAh: I’ve heard about situations like this. I think when the boy is a teenager the father should raise him. That’s when he needs his father the most.

    Whether women like it or not, men aren’t there just to provide sperm. They are the leaders. They are supposed to take responsibility. Everything that happens comes through them. Men look to each other for guidance and take their cues from one another. Women cannot control that.

    The best thing women can do is discern who’s the best man to involve in their lives. Heck, they need to make that judgment call with any of the company they keep.

29. rainebeaux
    September 28th, 2010 @ 8:33 AM

    I’ve written my (belated) NWNW post for both the mission site and my still-nonexistent blog. Stay tuned.

    *See also: ATTACK OF THE CLUE-BY-FOUR.

    GoldenAh: LOL. I can’t wait.

30. Bellydancer
    September 28th, 2010 @ 9:26 AM

    Sometimes the fathers of the children make it bad for the children especially if the ex wife/mother wants to move on with her life and desires no further intimacy with the ex spouse.
    I have a friend whose husband separated from her and left his son in another state then proceeded to “stalk” them. Hw would do this by calling constantly and then would cuss her out if she said she was too busy to talk
    or if she handed the phone to their son whom he professed to miss, he would get mad and say “why yo mama give you the phone is she seeing somebody else or who is there since your mama don’t wanna talk to me” their son was trapped in the middle because while he would rant and rave about his son he was really mad at my friend for telling him to move out.
    He would call them early in the morning while they would be getting ready for school/work then keep calling if they would not pick up the phone just silly shit trying to keep control, he would constantly beg my friend for another chance, whining one minute cussing the next. Their son would be listening on speaker phone while his mother was being cussed out. His father was always trying to get him to move where he lived, promising him stuff like dogs, electronics, his own room while he was sleeping on his mother’s couch and barely kept a job.
    My friend’s son started to act out at school and home because his father was sowing all kinds of discord, he would often call his father to complain if his mother or grandmother made him to a chore.
    I told my friend to limit his phone calls and monitor his behavior more because the teachers at school were noticing and you know black boys are always being singled out for behaviour problems.
    I told my friend other people are noticing this so you need to tell his father to stop upsetting him unless you want your child to be put on mood elavating medicine or suspended from school, she realized that her ex was endangering all she and her family had worked for but her ex just kept blaming her even though he was abusive emotionally and physically. Some of these men use their children to try to control the woman.

    GoldenAh: That’s sad. The “father” sounds like he’s always had major issues. It is the child that really does suffer in this situation. Why must people try to use the children when fighting with an ex? It’s wrong, but nobody wants to be right. Maybe in a case like this he would be better off being fatherless.

31. Queen
    September 29th, 2010 @ 12:12 AM

    @ Golden Ah Thank you, anytime you want me to write something it would be my pleaure.

    @Bellydancer, it is always sad when the parents bad mouth each other to the child. I have heard that same complaint from a few of my guy friends where the mama is always running them down in the ears of the child or they give the guy a hard time about seeing their child/children. One of my former class mates told me he woked in the child support office for california for two years and he would see women come into the office to demand an increase in child support when they found out their ex was dating. It was an act of retalitaion vs. need much of the time. I had a female relative do that to her ex too (but in all fairness in the light of his behavior, I don’t blame her, though her actions hurt the kids) not increase the child support, but gave the father a hard time about seeing the kids. Adults in their pain want to get back at the other, but it really pisses me off when they use the kids to do their dirty work.

32. Queen
    September 29th, 2010 @ 12:17 AM

    goldenah, you said

    Whether women like it or not, men aren’t there just to provide sperm. They are the leaders. They are supposed to take responsibility. Everything that happens comes through them. Men look to each other for guidance and take their cues from one another. Women cannot control that.

    THAT IS DEEP AND SO ON POINT!!!!

    The best thing women can do is discern who’s the best man to involve in their lives. Heck, they need to make that judgment call with any of the company they keep.

    THEY NEED TO MAKE THAT DECISION (PARDON THE BLUNTNESS) BEFORE THEY OPEN THEIR LEGS INSTEAD OF CHECKING FOR HIS FATHER “CREDENTIALS” (WHICH MAY BE NON-EXISTENT) AFTER THEY GET PREGNANT.

33. Bellydancer
    September 29th, 2010 @ 7:46 AM

    My friend’s husband gave off signs of instability before they married but my friend got married because she had a baby and her family is Jehova Witnesses so she felt she had to marry but she would have been better off financially on state help and that is a damn shame. Their rent, car payments and utilities were always late her family was always giving them money. He acted like he didn’t like going around her family and whined about coming back to live in Indiana since he didn’t like Georgia.
    When they separated he sent money for awhile then bought a new truck and quit sending money to help his child. He refused to give my friend an address so she couldn’t sue him for child support, all his mail went to his mother’s even after he moved out. She sent him a form to fill out so she could get food stamps and he lied on the form and said he was gonna say he sent her $300 a month in support when she told him that was a lie he got mad and refused to send the form, he did not want to be sued for child support so he just was gonna lie on the form.
    When his son would come to visit he wouldn’t buy him clothes or shoes and once even took him to a shoe store and bought himself a pair of shoes teliing his son “Oh I am not buying you anything these are for me I haven’t treated myself in awhile” WTF when you are a parent you do not get “treated” your kids come first. When an uncle gave his son $20 during a visit he made him buy donuts with the $20 even though he knew the boy planned on giving his mother the money to help him buy some shoes with it. SMDH
    Two christmases ago he promised to send money then turned around and said “no I have bought him a plane ticket and I want him to come here to visit” my friend was real upset because she needed money to buy her son clothes, coat and shoes it does get cold in Georgia and he had not sent money on over 6 months. The ticket was his way of controlling her asking for money it did not benefit anybody it on added to her burden. On the day of the flight as they arrived at the airport she gets a frantic phone call from her ex “you gotta tell j to say he is 13 years old” I guess you have to be over a certain age to fly alone if not the ticket is $100 more and he knew this my friend was like no we can’t lie they will ask to see his birth certificate and then they will know he cussed her out and screamed at her so when they got to the ticket counter to confirm his e ticket they asked how old was he and wanted to see ID and of course she was told he needed another type of ticket now this was $100 to come to Indiana plus it was going to be another $100 to come back to Georgia.
    This was money she did not have because he wanted to be slick about sending her any money. She had to find her mother and get her credit card number to purchase the correct ticket.
    Occasionally he would drive down and pick his son up and she would let them stay in her apt overnight while she would go over to her mother’s the last time he drove down and stayed he took a large mirror that she had boxed up from when they were living a a house that she had lost due to foreclosure.
    Her son called her and was whispering “mom when you get home dad took the mirror that you had in the box saying he was going to pawn it since you weren’t using it” Do you think he spent any money her son after stealing her property….Nope!

    GoldenAh: Your friend has the patience of a saint. I shudder just reading the nonsense she put up with. Ugh. This guy is working hard to give her a nervous breakdown. Did he grow up without a father?

    My Mom says black women are too kind. I think that explains the grief some of these sistas go through, because I don’t get it. They tolerate stuff that …. Oh, nevermind.

    Maybe instead of a “No Wedding No Womb” campaign, it should be called “Give A N***** 90 Days” as I’ve seen written on another blog. Sorry, but the name escapes me, but I was rolling when I saw the comment.

    A woman probably doesn’t even need to wait that long, since most guys don’t bother to hide how messy they are. She just needs a checklist of “10 signs that he will make you miserable for the rest of your life.”

    By the way, what were some of the examples of his instability, if you care to cite them? We may save some girl or woman grief if we highlight them.

    Ah, I want to put out one more post before the end of the month, and the good stuff keeps rolling in.

34. Bellydancer
    September 29th, 2010 @ 1:16 PM

    When N and T first met she was visiting Indiana but was living in NY she moved here to be with him she was 19 he was 20. I didn;’ know at the time his cousins went to school with me but I did not know him. Immediately after moving here to Indy she worked a temp job with me and that’s how we met and started talking and hanging out. Here is a list of the stuff he did before they got married.

    1. T lied about having his own place and car when N met him he had all these things but while she was preparing to move here he lost his job and apt and was living with his mother when N asked him “why didn’t you tell me all of this before I moved down here” he replied “cuz you would have said no to moving then”. N had to move in with a friend of her cousin.

    2. N bought a car and finally moved in with T in an efficiency he tried to lord over her car and limit her going places with her friends, often he would sit and look in her mouth while she was on the phone meddling in her conversations, he frequently would use his money for personal pleasure items and neglect his share of the rent and bills he bought himself a car to avoid paying all the rent which he agreed to do since N kept threatening to go back to NY.

    3. T would get jealous if N had her hair done or bought new clothes, jewelry or shoes he would retialiate by doing the same things and neglect bills even though she was putting money back from her checks to be able to do so.
    Sometimes he would run his fingers through her hair just to irritate her.

    4.Once they were low on food and T’s sister gave them some money to purchase some and he invited his friends over for a cookout instead of handing the money over to N to put with the budget when she complained that the money could have lasted them for 3 or 4 days he told her “damn can I have friends over sometime”

    5. After giving birth to their son N had to take off for 8 weeks due to the C-section she had to have he refused to help around the house, wouldn’t carry out the trash, wash dishes and ran out the door as soon as he could every weekend, just not helping with the baby at all. Refused to put his name on the baby’s birth certificate because N took some state assistance and T was afraid that government was going to make him pay the money back if he established paternity.

    6. After moving to Atlanta together where N’s parents had relocated they were married T left after 2 months and returned to Indiana saying he missed his family he of course took their only car back with him, he finally returned after 2 weeks saying he missed his son then turned around not even 2 weeks later and moved back to Indiana again and this time he stayed 5 months before going back to Atlanta while he was here in Indy their only car was stolen or so he says.

    7. Back in 1999 N bought a house in her name because T had bad credit and he complained about it the whole time she was closing about the size of the house, yard, basement anything to show his displeasure. The rent in her apt was $685 her mortgage was $798 not bad since most apts in ATL run you that much. This negro complained because he could not put his name on the house. In the end she lost the house because she got behind on the mortgage she tried to work 2 jobs but he complained about watching their son.

    8. T started to get mad when N got back to going to the Kingdom Hall and taking their son with her whenever J would complain like kids do T would get mad and say “he don’t have to go he is tired” N would snap back “he can stay up all night and watch tv he can go to church” Then they would argue about J staying up late which T would let him do just to piss off N.

    9. In 2000 we went on vacation to Miami N and I both turned 40 that year and went for my birthday. N’s mother watched her son for a day while we we gone after 1 day with his grandma J decided he wanted to go home T had a fit because he didn’t want to be bothered with his son while N was on vacation.
    So he called her fussing about that, then he called fussing about needing money for food even though he worked in a market and could have comped him some groceries.
    I told N just put some money back in the bank account and I will buy all of your food while we are here I swear he rang her phone every fricking hour for bullshit even after J went back to her mother’s house. When she came home he didn’t even carry her luggage into the house.

    10. When N’s car finally gave out after 7 years she had to buy a new one T rushed out to buy one also even though he had just bought one 2 years before then drunk drove it into a tree after 2 months of having it and then got mad when N would not co sign on a new car for him.

    11. T would often wake their son up while arguing telling him “your mother wants me to leave do you want me to leave” at 2 o’clock in the damn morning. He would often try to involve J in the arguement by asking him “do you want to move back to Indiana with me or stay with yo mama” and then hollaring at him when J would look at his mother.

    12. Refusing to sign divorce papers asking N “why are you in a hurry” after being separated for 3 years.

    Chile I wcould go on but just remembering this crap is making me mad. I don’t know if his father dying when he was younger made him unable to assume responsibility or what but he comes off like a control freak. When he can’t control something he acts out when the end of the marriage was coming he knew this and kept begging my friend to have a baby I told her N you need to watch yourself he is trying to trap you he knows you want out and he is mad about it.

    GoldenAh: After I’ve picked my jaw off the ground, I highlighted these blinking, flashing, signs that a guy might be a crazy irresponsible immature childish control freak. Domestic abuse doesn’t always involve hitting.

    Phew. SMH.

    Anyone remember Jerry McGuire when the girl says, “You had me at hello”?

    Well, he had her at the first BIG lie: I live with my mother and didn’t want to come clean, so you couldn’t decide for yourself whether to move here, or stay home. I’m sure there were other big whoppers.

    I wish your friend well, Bellydancer.

35. Queen
    September 29th, 2010 @ 3:11 PM

    Wow Bellydancer that is sad about your friend, in my reference, I was talking about good guys who want to be in their childrens lives and support them but the momis hostile and unaccomodating, not guys like this who shirk their responsiblity and avoid supporting their children, those guys IMHO are &#(@#&@(#@#*@)@!!!!! Men and women abuse their circumstances. There are plenty of deadbeat men out there who should be taken to the cleaners if they are unwilling to care for their children and there are also women who abuse the system. Case in point, Tiger woods ex wife wanted 750 million dollars in their divorce settlement. 750 million??? come on! I am in support of her living well, but she was just being greedy and IMHO just trying to stick it to him.

    Your friend with the baby father who bought shoes for himself instead of his son, that really pisses me off and more times than not this selfishness of these men women have to deal with them puts them in dire straits. That is is why it is so important that we as women use common sense in who we give our bodies to becasue if a baby is concieved out of this, 9 times out of 10 we are going to be the ones left holding the bag. We must be more proactive in protecting ourselves. His “swagger” is not that hot!!!! I honestly do not know what is the problem with these men mayabe if we as women would stop reproducing with them their “breed” will become extinct.

36. Bellydancer
    September 29th, 2010 @ 3:28 PM

    Get this Queen T is real overweight like 350 pounds or more and N also gained a lot of weight she was up to 200 pounds from stress and never losing her baby weight. So I gave her bellydance tapes to do, the whole time she was trying to exercise T was critisizing her saying shit like “you too big to move like them and why you doing all that you looking for another man”. Sabatoging her efforts to lose weight not eating the healthy food she fixed etc… so when she finally did lose about 60 pounds from walking and changing her diet he was actually mad at her and would get shitty if people gave her compliments and told her he had dated women prettier than her before WTF most men are happy when their wives learn something new but he is so selfish he could not see that her being healthy would help the whole family. When she gained the weight back as most people do he was relaxed and happy since it meant none else wanted her.
    N even thought about plus size modeling and he had a fit about that.

37. rainebeaux
    September 29th, 2010 @ 3:56 PM

    Damn, son; I thought my babydaddy was bad…If you all will excuse me, I must unclench my teeth. (my NWNW essay’s up @ the site. The longer version should be on my blog around Friday.)

    Here’s some of it:
    Young Ladies, Listen to Me Carefully — A Humorous Take on NWNW ~ by rainebeaux

38. Queen
    September 29th, 2010 @ 9:14 PM

    Bellydancer, you have teaching dvds?? I love bellydance and have been looking for some!

39. Bellydancer
    September 30th, 2010 @ 7:47 AM

    Queen: no I do not have any teaching dvds she was watching some with professional bellydancers on them. I had used them before and had recommended them to her. I was actually taking classes for a while and since she didn’t have access to a class she was watching the videos until he started making fun of her.
    Golden Ah: They have lived separately since 2004 but he still acts like he has a chance to go back with her he told her last year “why should we divorce we can just stay like this” I told her legally she could be responsible for his debts and bills if she wasn’t careful.

    By not giving her a divorce he is ensuring no one else can date her or marry her.

    For awhile after she got back into church she was talking religious stuff like “well Jehova hates divorce etc…” I told her he was not a jehova witness so she was unequally yoked to a nonbeliever anyway that’s why he acted crazy when she started to go back to church and that the lord does not want any of his children in that much misery.

    We do not talk as much as we used to I like her a lot but her problems were starting to get to me because she seemed to scared and timid to fight back and honey I am a street brawler you come at me and I am coming back at you. When he started to act out towards his son I was really hurt when she seemed so passive at defending her son. I told her fight for him even if you can’t fight for yourself.

40. Bellydancer
    September 30th, 2010 @ 9:47 AM

    I have decided to call my movement NPNP instead of SYPU.

    No Papers No Pu**y

    Hopefully even the dense people will get that.
    lol

    GoldenAh: That’s the hot remix version. LOL.

41. Likewaterforchocolat
    September 30th, 2010 @ 11:03 AM

    From my view, this is not about promoting abstinence as it is more about us, as black women, making smarter choices. And, I am all about that. Yes, there are women who choose to have a child alone (this usually has to do with a ticking biological clock and the fact that they thought they would be in a stable marriage by that point in their lives and that never materialized). However, these women usually represent a small number of women, black or white, who have children out of wedlock.

    Most black women want a stable marriage before having children. BW are just often duped by BM into settling for their version of a “committed” relationship. And sadly a lot of these women are not 16 year-old girls. A lot are educated women over the age of 25. In other words, of an age to know better. They are women fully aware that children born out of wedlock is a big issue in the bc and still they have babies with men who are willing to live with them and off of them, but not marry them.

    These are women who, as one poster previous stated, do not begin to take stock of a man’s “good father qualities” until they find themselves pregnant. Then, they start rationalizing away all of their faults, roll the dice and hope that it works out in their favor in the end. Because a lot of black women are still of the notion that a baby is a man’s investment in the relationship and will make him stay with us even if he won’t marry us. And thus begins the need for bw to settle. Settle for less than we’re worth. It usually does not.
    
    Ladies, you cannot breed with anybody. bw are the only women I know who be be with a guy for 7 years and as soon as they have a baby start referring to the guy as their “fiancee”. I have to put it into quotes because there is usually no ring involved and because theu simply had a conversation about it, poof! They’re engaged (depending on the day of the week). They will even adopt the man’s agenda and rationale as their own. Saying things like ” We’re not rushing into marriage” or “We’re not ready for that yet.”

    This train of thought makes absolutely no sense to me. Well, now they have a child together and like it or not, the woman will be attached to this man for the rest of the child’s life. This is whether or not he decides to stay in the picture. Because even out of the picture, the mother will have to deal with the damage caused by abandonment issues.

    Bellydancer pointed out something very important that although common sense should tell you, but bw are notorious for overlooking.

    Her friend is a JW and suddenly her faith comes into play when rationalizing that she remain married to a man who could cause her and her child emotional and financial ruin.

    Before having children period bw need to be smarter. This man does not share your views or your religion. If faith is something that is important, bw need to know that he feels the same way.

    As Candi Staton sang in the 70′s “…self-preservation is really what’s going on today.” Views on faith, family, child-rearing are important issues that bw are shy to mention while dating because they do not want to “scare” their good bm away. But when a pregnancy pops up, just because you CHOOSE not to deal with these issues does not mean that you won’t HAVE to.

    GoldenAh: We are made to live with FEAR from demanding better in our relationships. We are told by everyone (cleverly or not) to accept less. It has got to stop.

    Love the input, Likewaterforchocolat.

42. daphne
    September 30th, 2010 @ 7:34 PM

    Her friend is a JW and suddenly her faith comes into play when rationalizing that she remain married to a man who could cause her and her child emotional and financial ruin.

    I agree. There are plenty of black women, young and old, who are blinded by what they perceive as faith. Not to mention, the pastors of these churches are the 1st to tell women:

    “Wait on the Lord”
    “Pray him into his anointing”
    “Pray him into greatness”
    “You have to meet him where he is, and help train him in the ways of the Lawd”
    “He’s a diamond in the rough”

    Et cetera, etc. I’d be very interested to read a statistic that compares the percentage of black women with OOW children who identify as Christians vs those who identify as atheist/agnostic. Granted, the numbers of the former are considerably higher, but I’d like to see the proportion of each population. I think it would be interesting.

    GoldenAh: For the atheists/agnostics, I’m picturing a couple of black women fitting into an old school telephone booth.

43. Sandra77
    October 1st, 2010 @ 11:04 PM

    I just read the response from Frank M. posted on Sept. 25 at 11:34 a.m. He uses lot of words to obfuscate, while pretending to clarify, the real reasons for his actions. It makes no sense for someone to so strongly avoid marriage, but be fine with being in a “committed relationship”. He seems to be saying the only justifiable reason for marriage (for him) is for the purpose of rearing children. And yes, marriage is the best case scenario for rearing happy, healthy, successful kids into adulthood. But it seems to me, with all the words Frank used to try to justify not getting married, he told the truth (IMO) in just a few succint words he used in the 2nd paragraph of his 1st reason: he said ” I believe women will still be available at any age”. And there you have it. He can get all the benefits of marriage without being married, so why get married? Therein lies the biggest mistake that women make today – we have given men everything they want in the mistaken belief that they will then give us what we want. Big mistake. Men are at heart selfish creatures who will turn every surreptitious somersault to get what they want from women without giving anything (or as little as possible) back. And this is a perfect example of that type of male behavior. It hurts me to say it, but a lot of men are only as good as women force them to be. So we have to force the issue. It’s a shame.

    GoldenAh: I appreciate his candor. I don’t think a man will hide what he’s thinking if a woman asks him directly or carefully enough. Why should he? It’s like he said, there’s always a woman willing to give him what he wants.

    Women need to find out what’s in a man’s head long before the sex or emotional investment starts to take place. (I don’t mean first date or within 5 minutes of meeting. )

    You are right that women give men everything they want. They don’t suffer any consequences – women do. For some reason, I don’t know how it happened, we’ve been told a big fat lie that we can behave like men. Maybe that’s one of the bad turnouts of feminism. Although owning your own property, getting a decent job, etc. etc. is still an awesome result from it. This idea that we can be as “bad” as the boys is wreaking havoc.

    Some of the experiments from the last 40 plus years have failed: “free love”, “living together”, “no strings sex”, and “it’s just a piece of paper”.

    Thanks for your perspective, Sandra77.

44. jubilee
    October 21st, 2010 @ 1:05 PM

    I think that NWNW will take off so much that we will see white women listening also. We may think they’re getting married to good men, but its not always so; they have their share of bums and ‘white trash’ dudes.A woman needs to ‘test’ a man in general by NOT sleeping or kissing him; once you do that, he’ll change and you’ll lose him sooner or later

    GoldenAh: Yes, women need to get back to saying, “No” or like that Janet Jackson song, “Let’s Wait a While.” No need to hurry anymore. There has to be a serious checklist before any entanglements, because finding out a guy is a useless irresponsible trifling bum after bringing a child into this world is so not cool.

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