Announcement: swirlingandmarriage.com

Introducing a website dedicated to dating, relationship, and coaching services for black American women who want to date interracially or internationally. Swirling & Marriage is brought you to by a truly awesome member of the BWE community Lorraine Spencer.

In 2010 Lorraine helped highlight some sisters, which achieved international newspaper coverage. She also placed ads in international and military papers for additional exposure. If there are men from around around the world that you ladies want contact with, Lorraine is the one who can help you find them. Or at least point you in the right direction. There are no guarantees, but the more men you meet the better the odds.

Swirling & Marriage was formally re-launched around the first week of October. Profiles of the women will reach people all over the US, Scandinavia (along with some other European countries maybe even Russia), Australia and New Zealand.

Swirling & Marriage is a great site with lots of articles, profiles, links, tips and other resources.

The contact email address is: swirlingandmarriage@gmail.com.

It is on Facebook as well. Go on over and Like the page. Information about services and fees are in the Notes Section.

Swirling & Marriage™ | Personal Coaching for Black Women Who Desire Interracial/International Marriage…& the Men Who Love Them!

swirlingandmarriage.com

 


Ladies, I wish you much success and happiness in your endeavors. 🙂

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Black Woman: Would You Marry a Blue Collar White Man?

The Question

Asked of me by C.B.:

If you are educated, would you or have you married a blue collar wm? Many folks are quick to suggest bw take or accept a lower level bm on the academic and economic label. Why is this a problem if a bw marries a wm on a lower scale. (I do know a lady who married a produce manager wm, and she is a phd level. They just had a second baby.)

The Answer

The following is from my personal perspective. It is not intended as follow-what-I’m-doing advice (which is never my intention on this blog), but it’s an example of how I think. Your own dating and marrying philosophy may differ. 🙂

Education

About me: I like to joke that I am over-educated. It doesn’t mean I know everything, but I am excessively curious about a lot of things, and I always need to know more. Since I was eight, I loved reading encyclopedias and dictionaries. Today, I enjoy scanning the internet(s) for obscure information.

I used to want to be a fireman, police officer, and an artist. Then I wanted to be an astronaut, research scientist of weird diseases, writer, and a lawyer. My interests continued to change, but my desire for information and knowledge did not.

I graduated from high school, wishing I left a few years early, then proceeded to obtain an Associate’s Degree, Bachelor’s Degree and finally a Master’s Degree. It took a lot of years of hustling to achieve these diplomas. I often worked while attending school, and for the advanced degree, my employer(s) paid for the education.

Do the diplomas make me happy? They were not attained for personal happiness. The purpose of my education is for personal self-fulfillment and is a necessary tool, among others, in working as a “professional” in a white collar corporate environment or pursuing self-employment. For the time being, I am done with obtaining another degree, but I will go  for additional certifications and a license or two.

Blue Collar vs White Collar Men

Not all men favor extensive schooling, and they are able to work at not just good, but great blue collar jobs, without a need for a high school diploma or college education. They even make more than anyone in a white collar profession would earn in their lifetime.

I’ve known a variety of men. My Mom likes to tell people I date the United Nations. Some of the men didn’t finish college. Some of them were self-taught in order to work in their office profession.

The odds are always low that I would encounter an available blue collar white man, based on my social circles, work environment and personal interests. In addition to that, based on observation, blue collar men marry earlier than white collar men. They start working right after, or even during, high school right into a stable well paying position, with excellent long term benefits. Whereas the potential white collar worker will spend the next 4-8 plus years studying and putting his life on hold.

Final Answer

I don’t believe I would ever find myself marrying a blue collar white man, because I don’t think we would be a good fit. It is not easy to meet men who like women with a college education or advanced degrees. I don’t care what his race is. I don’t volunteer my educational background unless asked, but once they find out they’ll lose that “loving feeling”.

On the flip side, I will be real here: it is not easy talking or relating to a man with definitive educational gaps. Now, I know everyone who loves exceptions will offer up a spate of their genius IQ high school or college dropout friends*, but I’m talking about what I’ve met on average in the general course of life.

I don’t play Jeopardy with every man I meet, but for fun I’ll look for some indication that this guy keeps himself informed or has an intense interest in anything beyond his nose. Usually, I find that he’s satisfied with his lot in life. Good for him. He will not even have the slightest desire to know more, travel, explore or fulfill some lifelong aspirational ambition. Nope. He’s happy as a pig in s&!t (although, in fact, pigs put their stuff in one corner and do not wallow in it).

But hey, who am I to decide he needs more? So, where he sees bliss, I see stagnation. And I’m happy for the guy, but I realize that we wouldn’t last long as a couple.

My philosophy is this: if I like learning, studying, schooling, travel, and seeking opportunities to explore, why would I expect to get along with a man who doesn’t? I’m old enough to know that I cannot.

 


 

* For example, Steve Jobs, Bill Gates, Michael Dell and men like these don’t count in this relationship equation. Steve returned to college to continue learning, but focusing only on classes that served his interests. Gates and Dell left college a number of credits shy of their degrees.

The difference with these men is that they are ambitious, eternally curious and they never stopped learning….

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Continuing The Nice Good … Love Is a Numbers Game, Play It Serious

How to Play It Serious

The best information always comes from the comments section. I’d like to highlight these tips from Lisa:

I started reading BWE blogs when I was 27 and now I’m married at 32. I might still be thinking about all the time I have and feeling that there’s “no rush” if not for reading the blogs.

While there’s never a “rush” for love, there’s also no reason to be waiting around for some man to come along (or some man to shape up and marry you after umpteen years), when you can find someone right now who is ready for something real and serious — and he might just be white!

Wow, it’s been that long? 🙂

Lisa offers what changed in her approach to the dating game:

I guess I’d say that the other change I made was taking the process of meeting men a lot more seriously. I used to act in the “if it happens, it happens” mode, so I might have a dating profile up, but if I didn’t receive any responses in six months (for example), I didn’t care. I just figured it wasn’t my time and nothing more.

I later stepped up my efforts (and was successful, yay) and also made it a point to go to more social events. I didn’t have time to hope I met Mr. Right at the supermarket one day, although if it happened that way, it would be nice. I just started making more time to go out (and that does not mean to the club) instead of staying home all the time.

Last night, my husband and I went to a goodbye party for a co-worker who’s moving. While I’m no longer on the market, there were a bunch of single guys there that I would have been checking out… not saying any of them were available, but at least my odds improved by going to the dinner and meeting six unmarried men versus staying at home because I was too tired or something.

Plus, just being in the company of men can help you be a better dater, so that when you do get asked out, you’ll be so fabulous on the first date that he’ll want to ask you out again!

Wonderful testimonial. Each journey begins with the first step. Don’t be afraid. Don’t be hypercritical of yourself. You don’t have to look like [insert name of the latest superskinny supermodel or beweaved singer] to make things happen. Embrace who you are. Start looking. Get social. Make more friends.

Don’t linger on any man who will waste your time. Don’t ever let him get you on the phone talking for hours or more than 10 minutes at a time. Don’t let him text you (heaven forbid now, eh?) a million times a day. He’s wasting your time. This is part of vetting.

Listen to what he says, he’ll tell you what he’s looking for when you ask. And you must ask. Make it clear what YOU WANT. Don’t ever waver. You deserve better.

A Nice Black Man Offers His Perspective on Dating

I appreciate feedback from guys, and so we have the following comment from Bubby.

Well, speaking as a nice black guy, I always tell guys who’re nice who say that they are having problems meeting or finding the right woman, to look harder and to keep at it. Dating is a numbers game and you have to face your fears, face rejection and keep plugging away. If you approach twenty women, four may find you attractive. So sixteen women will tell you, no thanks. Now, are you gonna focus on the negative sixteen or on the positive four?

I chuckle when some of these cats say that women only want “bad boys” or “players”. Women are free to like whatever turns them on in a man and if you’re not what she’s looking for or attracted to, why get angry at her? We all know that men don’t want people telling them what to find attractive in a woman. Move on. There are plenty of women out there who will love and appreciate you but you’ll never find them if you’re too busy throwing yourself a pity party.

I’ve read these so-called seduction sites and they all reccomend that a “nice guy” change or incorporate some gimmick or routine into his “game”. I say be yourself. I say get a hobby. Do things that you enjoy. Get out and explore the world. Take a cooking class. LIVE.

But keep your eyes open and be prepared and willing to approach a woman that you find attractive. Be polite and courteous and see if she’s willing to give you a shot. The rule is: Men approach and the woman chooses.

Truth be told, some of these guys want women to fall at their feet just because they’re nice cats. They don’t want to put any effort into having a love life at all. That kind of arrogance isn’t sexy at all and women will avoid you like the plague.

Hey, you sound like my older brother and his friends!

We all do need to remove anger, hostility, bitterness, and sense of entitlement from our interactions with one another. I think we all improve if we just keep it polite, cordial and cool.

Guys may not realize this, but the fastest way to win a woman over is to be helpful and useful. That’s the one thing that I’m surprised so many miss. I’m not talking about replacing the plumber and being on-call like a hot-line, but showing a woman handyman skills and being reliable, gets you through the right door faster than playing the fool.

And if she cannot appreciate good favors, then at some point the next woman will.

Thank you for your contributions, Lisa and Bubby. 🙂

Cheers everyone.

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Black Women – Devil’s Advocate: You Gotta Chase a White Man

It’s September, and it’s Devil’s Advocate* month. Let’s have some fun, shall we? :D

You’ve been dateless, man-free, and frustratingly single this entire summer, month, year, decade, or century.

All these BWE / BW-IR blogs are starting to work your last nerve. Why?

You are getting so effing tired of hearing all these damn rules of what YOU gotta do to get you some swirl action.

You are getting so tired of these relentlessly cheerful, unnaturally happy, skinny ass, absolutely perfect, nauseatingly special black women who find it sooooo dayumn easy to get hold of a (white) man. It’s like some of these chicks rolled out of bed, opened the front door, and there stood Mr. Prince Charming with a dozen red roses in one hand and a 14kt diamond engagement ring in the other. It’s gotta be maddening to find out that he looks like Bradley Cooper or Jonathan Rhys Meyers with Ryan Reynolds’s deliciously hot body.

It’s been a long, long, dry (really dry and you’re thirsty ’bout now), hot summer, and you didn’t get yours.

The “solutions” that keep coming are fast and furious, yet they’re not only contradictory, they seem annoyingly unrealistic and unreachable. You wanna hear some “keepin’ it real” advice from one black woman to another. Not stuff you could easily read in any white woman’s magazine or The Rules book.

Everywhere you go – you keep asking the same question: Where are all these wonderful white men these chicks keep finding? ‘Cause no one’s really looked your way since your hairdresser “accidentally” dyed your hair baboon-ass red, and promised the color would fade in a week.

As the Devil’s Advocate, I’m here to confirm your worst fears: finding a man will be hardest task you’ve ever undertaken. The truth of the matter is: these white guys really aren’t checking for YOU. Of course, it’s easy for all these other ladies. But for you? Pshaw. You will have to roll up your sleeves and get to work.

I know the excuses. So let’s throw them under the bus:

  • you’re not heading to Europe for a man.
  • you have no intention of traveling for luv.
  • you’re not losing 10-50+ plus pounds just to get a man. they gotta love you as you are.
  • you’re not joining any clubs that are dominated by men.
  • you’re uniquely quirky (weird) with a strange sense of humor. guys don’t dig you.
  • you don’t want to hear any mess about your hair. ever again.
  • you ain’t planning on grinning and skinning all day for no man. he’s gotta understand you have moods.
  • you’re not buying any new clothes. funk that. you love lumberjack flannel shirts.
  • you know the truth that no one else will ever admit: most, if not all, white men just don’t like black women!!!!

Sorry. You’re gonna have to make changes, but let’s ease into it.

Let me roll out some things here that you might want to think about, but don’t over think about.

  • How often and how long do you make eye contact with an attractive (in your eyes) man? Long, short, blink and gone?
  • Do you smile and say hello first? If he doesn’t respond, do you think you weren’t loud enough or that the dude probably hates black women and you swear you’ll never to do it again?
  • Do you believe men know what you’re thinking?
  • Do you assume you know what men are thinking when they look at you? Are your thoughts negative, neutral, or positive?
  • Are you able to have a conversation without uttering one negative word or thought? That one might not be easy.
  • How’s your body language? Closed or open? Arms folded a lot? Do you lean towards the person or away?
  • Do you shy away or hide from men? It’s possible you’re doing it subconsciously.
  • Ever went to a party / gathering and decided to touch every guy when crossing the room? You know, just a light caress down the arm. If you’re feeling bold, turn your head, smile, and look ‘em up and down… Practice makes perfect.
  • Online dating is hit and miss: stop joining sites where 98.23% of the white guys will date anybody, even other men, but a black woman. Seek out the interracial sites, the men are half-way there and willing. That makes sense, right?
  • Relax. Relax. Relax. Flirt. Flirt. Flirt.
  • Get in the habit of making friends with white men. Friends. Friends. Friends. With no benefits. Keep it platonic.

I have more bad news for you.

There is no magical interracial swirl fairy. You’re gonna have to get a man the old-fashioned way: chase him down and collar him. To chase a man means being coy, witty, friendly, feminine, and slightly seductive. That takes practice.

Have fun.

*According to Wikipedia, Devil’s Advocate is:

In common parlance, a devil’s advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil’s advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process. The purpose of such process is typically to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure, and to use such information to either improve or abandon the original, opposing position.
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Rant: I Need My Own Cyrano De Bergerac

Granted, I can be a decent writer when I’m angry or in an especially good mood. I think my writing is even superb when I work at it.

But I’m thinking there’s something off when I write a personal ad or even a resume. It’s odd how I put those two together, but they both require a level of selling (of the self) that I’m not great at. I’m used to taking classes all of my life on how to be a dutiful student and corporate worker-bee drone, but not showcase myself.

There’s a teaching methodology of pushing learned helplessness, as opposed to independence (and I don’t mean false self-esteem) in these schooling systems that needs to be eviscerated.

I didn’t believe self-promotion was necessary – I thought “sales” was something everyone else did. Yet, little did I realize it’s the lifeblood of western society. Part of me still thinks it’s not necessary. Part of me also wonders: Where do I draw the line on describing how incredibly awesome I am (said entirely tongue-in-cheek)?

Not only that – do men actually read? I think I’m enviously starting to “hate on” women who say they’ve searched online for Mr. Right and he appears within three weeks, or even three months.

To top off my aggravation meter, the man (and I mean man) speaks to her like an adult, not a wannabe porn star.

Do guys ever realize that some women are completely turned off by constant and instantaneous sex talk? Would it hurt to even ask if that’s appropriate? Why must I be the schoolmarm and tell them it’s lame? Doesn’t anyone have any class or common sense anymore? Were all these people brought up in animal shelters?

I get that this is a hookup-instant-sex-too-much-information society. I don’t roll at that speed. I never will. I don’t roll into instant information: I like breathing space. Let me slowly process who you are. There’s no difference between meeting someone online and chatting and bar pickups. I’ve done it all. I’ve gone everywhere (meetups, church, just walking, etc.) and I still meet the same guy(s).

I know what I’m doing wrong: I should have been born during an era where people had clearly defined social rules or something. Or maybe in the future when people regain their sanity.

Yeah, I get that this is how it is. I would like to know where are the grown men? Because all I’m meeting are adolescents in the body of 30 and 40 year olds. Don’t get me wrong, I’m meeting guys! I would just like them to be mature men.

‘Cause I’m too old for the silly nonsense now.

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For Black Women: White Men Hunting – Lesson Number 92

Sometimes the comments are so good, they get their own posts.

In this one, White Men Hunting – Lesson Number 92, you will have the answers to oft-repeated questions, such as:

  • Where are the white men?
  • How do I find one?
  • How do I get one to ask me out?
  • I don’t look like Beyonce or Halle, will they like me?
  • Am I too old at age (fill in the blank)?

Starting with the excellent comment by Anna (middle name). She addresses the age-old issue of: Now, how are white men supposed to know you like them if you never hang around them?

Anna (middle name) says:

If you want to be in the swirl, there is one way to make that happen that is only obvious after someone connects the dots for you. That’s how it happened for me, too.

What is it, you ask?

Just hang out with white guys. Even if none of those guys that you’re hanging with ask you out, other WM will see you with them, figure that you actually must like white guys and be comfortable around them, approach you, and ask you out. It works like a charm.

I know. I am 26, and in the roughly 18 months I’ve been hanging out with these three white guys I know, I’ve been asked out by three different white guys, guys that are friends of my friends. And one of those guys I went out with is now my steady boo.

I’m not Beyonce and I’m not Paula Patton or Eve, either. I am not beautiful, I’m average looking. I’m thin (white guys like that), but other than that, I look like a lot of other black chicks. I’m just average.

I hear BW that want to meet white men say they want to meet white guys, but they can’t, but then, they’re never around any white people, so I don’t know they’re expecting to meet white guys that way. If all you’re around is black people, then all you’re going to meet is more black people, ladies.

Make friends with some white men, even if those guys are not guys you would want to date. Be seen with those white guys by other white guys, some of which you will want to date. This simple formula eluded me for a long time. It’s blindingly obvious once it’s obvious, right?

Put yourself in front of WM that are dating material by socializing with other white men. This really, really works. And, it also helps you get to know white guys a lot better so that when the “dating material” guy shows up, you are ready to communicate (wink) with him. You’ve already had your tutorial on white men, you’re ready to go.

And before any of you grow shy and dismiss your own chances, read the following two comments of encouragement.

The next is by the lovely sistahwuman with a wonderful relationship. (And I still want her man.)

sistahwuman says:

It’s been my experience that you just never know with WM in terms of which one will be open to dating a BW. I have always solved this problem by being open to any quality man, even if I thought the chances of him wanting to date IR were probably low. My current situation is a great example.

As I mentioned before, my boyfriend looks to be just about the whitest guy in the world. Nothing unusual about him, he dresses conservatively, he speaks like he came out of prep school, which he did, and he’s tall and good-looking, but in a low-key sort of way. And if you knew him, you would know that he drinks scotch straight up, smokes cigars, watches football, etc. Typical guy stuff, especially typical white guy stuff, but throw in the fact that he’s a handsome guy and doesn’t lack for offers of female company, also makes a good living at a stodgy old firm, and as a BW, you might say that your chances with such a guy are probably not great. He’s just too white! Am I right?

But, I made sure he knew I was interested in him. You can’t win if you don’t play, right, ladies? And much to my surprise, he responded to that interest immediately.

Here is something else: that calm exterior hides a hot, passionate nature underneath. Wow!

So, you just never know. My advice to all those BW considering an IR is to try not to knock anyone out of contention based on your initial perception of them. Obviously, some men will eliminate themselves immediately by saying or doing something stupid or disrespectful, but that happens across all races. No, I’m talking about the kind of guys that play it close to the vest, the ones that are laying back until they get a signal from you that it’s ok to approach you. All these other sisters know what I’m talking about, I’m sure. Most WM of any kind of substance are going to be cautious in their approach. So, all I’m saying is, your initial impression of his level of his real or potential interest in you may not be accurate – my man says he noticed me immediately and was quite attracted to me, but did nothing to alert me to that until he got the go-ahead from me in conversation.

Just sayin’.

You don’t have to be perfect to find the perfect situation.

Last, but not least, the wise words of magicwoman. You can never be too old. It’s never too late to start looking.

magicwoman says:

First of all, I am 44.

Second, in the interests of keeping it as real as possible here, I want to list all the cons that any honest BW would say I bring to the table in terms of a possible IR relationship:

I am 44.

I am a dark sister.

I am tall, 5′10″.

I wear my hair short and natural.

My financial situation is shaky and always has been.

I have a very large, surly black teenage son who resents any man that is around his mother.

I am smart, but I got an awful education. Sometimes it’s tough for me to participate in certain conversations because I just don’t know enough about the subject.

I have a large, goofy dog that flings himself at everyone he likes even a little bit.

Here are the pros:

I still have a great body, thank god. I am slim, but curvy. I hit the gym hard.

I have a wonderful smile, with dazzling white teeth.

I still have a pretty face.

I’m a nice person and people seem to be able to sense that.

I’m smart, even if not well-educated.

I like the same music most WM my age like – more important than you think.

I’m not a complainer or a whiner – WM love this.

I take of my man in every way possible, from the little things to the big things. What BM just expect, WM are always just surprised to get. My guy says he’s never felt so looked after in his whole life.

I have a big goofy dog that most WM like when the dog is not trying to lick them to death.

All I’m saying here is that whatever pros and cons come with you, as long as it’s an even contest (or maybe one or two more things in the pro column), you can find someone. You’re almost 40? So what!

You don’t think there is a white guy that is 40 years old that would like to meet, and then date, a wonderful, attractive sister? I can assure you, there are plenty.

Look at the drawbacks I’m working with here! Just my age and the fact that I have a large, unhappy-looking black teenage son in the house should be enough to send most white guys running for the hills.

But I found someone, someone I love very much and someone who loves me very much. He’s a huge white guy, a gentle giant that has a heart of gold. And, btw, the kid is starting to come around to him.

He’s told me that he wishes he had met me in his twenties because he’s never been so happy, and I feel the same exact way, but sometimes happiness doesn’t run on the schedule you prefer.

Sorry this has rambled on so long, but I guess my message to PhillyGirl is, whatever list of pluses and minuses you have for yourself, don’t write off your chances of finding love (and marriage, if you want it) with a WM. It can happen.

I couldn’t have said it better. {Virtual hugs for everyone!}

Happy white man hunting, ladies! Make me proud.

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